Trident Maple Chopped

[WavyGaby]

I dug and chopped this trident maple about a month ago. I know the timing was off but I had a limited window with nothing to lose. I also got 3 others at the same time. 2" caliper, leader branch is 5" high, chopped at 6". I think the leader is still alive as it is flexible and a couple buds are present. I have not worked with trident maples before. I am looking for advice in developing this tree and the others. I intend to grow out the leader but not sure how to treat the rest of the lower growth. Just leave one or two as side branches or leave them all?

I can post the others too, but I have a feeling I will need to chop them lower next year. I left them a bit higher to make sure I included the lowest branch(es). One actually kept green leaves, haha! These things appear to be beasts.
Thanks for looking and sharing your knowledge.

 

[NaoTK]

Depending on the style you are going for the chop height may be fine. Many ways to crack an egg.

But I wouldn't count on that old leader coming around any time soon. You might as well pick one of the young shoots to be a leader, have it be on the side with the best base so the cut is in the back or side. Wire some movement in it and let it grow a few years. Leave the other shoots to grow freely but realize they will likely be out of proportion and need rebuilding by the time your trunk is built.

 

[bwaynef]

Those branches won't ever be as flexible as they are right now. Choose wisely.

 

[WavyGaby]

Depending on the style you are going for the chop height may be fine. Many ways to crack an egg.

But I wouldn't count on that old leader coming around any time soon. You might as well pick one of the young shoots to be a leader, have it be on the side with the best base so the cut is in the back or side. Wire some movement in it and let it grow a few years. Leave the other shoots to grow freely but realize they will likely be out of proportion and need rebuilding by the time your trunk is built.

Good point about the leader. It definitely has a bunch of dead buds too. Probably not a good long term investment.
I buried all the roots. Should I expose them momentarily and start figuring out a front once it settles in?

 

[fredman]

You have a good nebari going there. Leave it as is while you familiarise yourself with the basics. You have time. Lots and Lots of Trident info here. The more you learn the more confident you'll get. You're the one that need to decide where to go with it in the end.

 

[WavyGaby]

You have a good nebari going there. Leave it as is while you familiarise yourself with the basics. You have time. Lots and Lots of Trident info here. The more you learn the more confident you'll get. You're the one that need to decide where to go with it in the end.

Thanks for the encouragement. I will take my time learning and working with these. I've read several of the trident maple threads and I'm learning a lot with other bonsai people in the area. Any particular threads I should read on here?

 

[BobbyLane]

I dug and chopped this trident maple about a month ago. I know the timing was off but I had a limited window with nothing to lose. I also got 3 others at the same time. 2" caliper, leader branch is 5" high, chopped at 6". I think the leader is still alive as it is flexible and a couple buds are present. I have not worked with trident maples before. I am looking for advice in developing this tree and the others. I intend to grow out the leader but not sure how to treat the rest of the lower growth. Just leave one or two as side branches or leave them all?

I can post the others too, but I have a feeling I will need to chop them lower next year. I left them a bit higher to make sure I included the lowest branch(es). One actually kept green leaves, haha! These things appear to be beasts.
Thanks for looking and sharing your knowledge.
View attachment 311839View attachment 311840

i would keep everything where the cluster of branches meet. the wood above that point can be nibbled away with knob cutters. the material looks suited to a broom style tree. the other option is to keep one leader to eventually be the next trunk section and remove all extra growth. the question you then need to ask yourself is how long will that take and will it ever look convincing.
i sometimes sway towards the latter, if my intention is to grow the next section of trunk in the field.
thing is, if you start with a decent sized leader with good thickness, then its not so bad, but all these branches are pretty thin. but at least they are of a similar size and that is another reason to build a domed canopy with what you have. but its your tree and these decisions often come down to taste.

 

[BobbyLane]

here's a hornbeam i chopped in 2017 to one leader, it went straight in the ground after
2017-03-30_06-28-16 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

2018 and already there is some decent transition
20181208_101931 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
20191018_153905 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

2019
20191018_153924 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
20191018_153944 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

ground results are magical. in a pot you wont get this type of thickening in the same time frame, things to weigh up!

 

[WavyGaby]

i would keep everything where the cluster of branches meet. the wood above that point can be nibbled away with knob cutters. the material looks suited to a broom style tree. the other option is to keep one leader to eventually be the next trunk section and remove all extra growth. the question you then need to ask yourself is how long will that take and will it ever look convincing.
i sometimes sway towards the latter, if my intention is to grow the next section of trunk in the field.
thing is, if you start with a decent sized leader with good thickness, then its not so bad, but all these branches are pretty thin. but at least they are of a similar size and that is another reason to build a domed canopy with what you have. but its your tree and these decisions often come down to taste.

Thanks for the input and advice. You brought up some important variables I haven't considered. I dont have any room for ground planting and I enjoy some of the broom styles I've seen. I dont know any thing about developing brooms but I assume it's an easier task than the leader option. I see the BN search function has lots of information in brooms. Time to read up some more!

 

[WavyGaby]

here's a hornbeam i chopped in 2017 to one leader, it went straight in the ground after
2017-03-30_06-28-16 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

2018 and already there is some decent transition
20181208_101931 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
20191018_153905 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

2019
20191018_153924 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
20191018_153944 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

ground results are magical. in a pot you wont get this type of thickening in the same time frame, things to weigh up!

Nice! Looks similar in size to mine with really nice radial roots. When will you chop again?

 

[BobbyLane]

i wouldnt say the broom is easier, thats not my thinking. but its suited to what you already have! there is a saying that goes: "let the tree decide what it wants to be" i often make a lot of decisions based on this. most of the branches are meeting at a similar height, this tells me the tree is strong here and maybe i should build on that. in these types of situations, you will find that this cluster of branches will thicken and develop extremely fast if you get what i mean!

ive been looking at the hornbeam but not chopped yet, i want more thickening, the taller i leave it, the more it will thicken. currently there is no issues with inverse taper occurring so its been left to grow. im not looking for a overly thick trunk, i may develop it as an elegant tree.

 

[leatherback]

I find that tridents build heavy callus edges at chop sites. As such, I would remove all but 1 branch, only keeping the one that you will use as next segment of your trunk. Everything else will just become wounds to be cleaned up and closed afterwards. Some of the best maple trunks I have seen have ALL chops on the back, and the front is smooth as can be without any visible scars. THis requires you to remove any branches as soon as they appear and to focus on growing the trunk.

In the end, it is all about what you see as final image. Based on that, you decide a strategy to get there. Without it, no-one can really tell you want to do.

I would have cut much lower. Get a stron flare near the roots. But that is me. I like tridents with a muscular rootbase..

 

[ConorDash]

Thanks for the encouragement. I will take my time learning and working with these. I've read several of the trident maple threads and I'm learning a lot with other bonsai people in the area. Any particular threads I should read on here?

Hell to the yes there is.. I was going to post this link even before reading that lol.

Heres a link from an experienced person who has done essentially the same thing but is 10 years ahead of you.. good enough?
@Brian Van Fleet

The 2010 BonsaiNut Maple Project

Al, I love this idea! I've been working on trees for quite a few years, and have never once had a trident maple in a bonsai pot. I've always figured that they were so easy to grow, that I wouldn't have one unless it was a damn good one. I have several trident maples in the ground, and so...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[leatherback]

Hell to the yes there is.. I was going to post this link even before reading that lol.

Heres a link from an experienced person who has done essentially the same thing but is 10 years ahead of you

pff. But that is starting with a 3 year old tree. Do you not have one that starts earlier ?

 

[ConorDash]

pff. But that is starting with a 3 year old tree. Do you not have one that starts earlier ?

I personally have one yes, however there's not much to take a pic of yet. Its some water, working its way up the the tree outside, eventually it'll make a seed, which will eventually drop, which will eventually be sown, which will eventually start to grow, which will eventually be dug up and then a pic can be taken.

 

[WavyGaby]

Hell to the yes there is.. I was going to post this link even before reading that lol.

Heres a link from an experienced person who has done essentially the same thing but is 10 years ahead of you.. good enough?
@Brian Van Fleet

The 2010 BonsaiNut Maple Project

Al, I love this idea! I've been working on trees for quite a few years, and have never once had a trident maple in a bonsai pot. I've always figured that they were so easy to grow, that I wouldn't have one unless it was a damn good one. I have several trident maples in the ground, and so...

www.bonsainut.com

Super stuff. These progression threads are really helpful. I read through them slowly to note the dates, observe details in photos, and think how to utilize methods as they relate to my situations. It's like reading a novel and each chapter is the next season.

 

[WavyGaby]

I find that tridents build heavy callus edges at chop sites. As such, I would remove all but 1 branch, only keeping the one that you will use as next segment of your trunk. Everything else will just become wounds to be cleaned up and closed afterwards. Some of the best maple trunks I have seen have ALL chops on the back, and the front is smooth as can be without any visible scars. THis requires you to remove any branches as soon as they appear and to focus on growing the trunk.

In the end, it is all about what you see as final image. Based on that, you decide a strategy to get there. Without it, no-one can really tell you want to do.

I would have cut much lower. Get a stron flare near the roots. But that is me. I like tridents with a muscular rootbase..

Thanks for the advice. I dont have a vision for this tree or the 3 other tridents so I think I will mostly stare at them for a while. I was not as aggressive on the chops becuase I thought that would help their survival during a late spring dig. I plan on going back to the site in late winter/early spring to collect more, fatter ones. I plan to chop those around 2" high.
This one is the most vigorous of the bunch I for this tree yet so I think I will

I find that tridents build heavy callus edges at chop sites. As such, I would remove all but 1 branch, only keeping the one that you will use as next segment of your trunk. Everything else will just become wounds to be cleaned up and closed afterwards. Some of the best maple trunks I have seen have ALL chops on the back, and the front is smooth as can be without any visible scars. THis requires you to remove any branches as soon as they appear and to focus on growing the trunk.

In the end, it is all about what you see as final image. Based on that, you decide a strategy to get there. Without it, no-one can really tell you want to do.

I would have cut much lower. Get a stron flare near the roots. But that is me. I like tridents with a muscular rootbase..

Thanks for the advice. I dont have a vision for this tree or the 3 other tridents so I think I will mostly stare at them for a while and read a bunch. Right now, I like Bobby's broom suggestion for this one since so many small branches are present relatively equally in height around the trunk. I will go with one leader on the other guys though.
I was not as aggressive on the chops becuase I thought that would help their survival during a late spring dig. I'll likely chop one or 2 lower next year and work on roots again. I plan on going back to the site in late winter/early spring to collect more, fatter ones and chopping those around 2" high.

 

[WavyGaby]

--- 13 months post dig and chop ---
9 months ago the fam and I moved into a townhome with only enough space for a couple trees. A friend of mine kept this and many others. It was kept in mostly shade so it became leggy and slightly eaten by pests.
I am back in a home with a yard and I am transitioning this back to full sun. I let some of the high up leggy stuff get slightly burnt, then I cut it to where you see it. I also selected some branches to get rid of. I used systemic pellets and a 3 in 1 spray to treat pests.
I am going for a clump style. My hopes are to get another good flush of growth and gain health before winter. Then I want to chop the branches, work roots, and repot in bonsai soil in early March.
Thanks for looking and sharing advice.

 

[WavyGaby]

Instead of going into a bigger container with bonsai soil, I planted it in the ground last year late summer.
It's doing well. I'll probably dig it in spring 2023.
I meant I am going for an umbrella style, per earlier recommendations, as most of the branches exit around the same height around the top