Trident Maple Cuttings - Right or wrong?

[Dorian Fourie]

I have been ground growing 2 Trident maples to assist with trunk thickening and because of the lush excessive growth, I wanted to try my hand at rooting cuttings.

Winter is just around the corner so I got stuck in.

After cutting off long shoots, I cut these down to 2 bud segments, dipped them into rooting hormone and planted them into 100% percent perlite. I took various size thickness cuttings so that I could have a variety to choose from. All of them came of one of the tridents so that all cuttings will have the same characteristics (Should they take). I then created a wire frame and covered the whole container with a bag to create the humidity.

So after posting this on my FB page, the comments have been coming in like, I did the cuttings too soon in the season, I did the cuttings too short, they don't use a cover to create humidity etc etc.

So, any advice, suggestions, good web site on creating cuttings etc would be appreciated. After all they could be right in what they said.

Thanks

 

[armetisius]

I and several others answered this at length on:
http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/wh...ent-cuttings-and-airlayers.23443/#post-356538

 

[Eric Group]

If winter is coming, you probably should have waited until Spring...

The length isn't so bad- as long as you have about an inch or more in the perlite and one "node" is buried you might get roots.. I would not have left the stems on the part that will be buried... Leads to rot/ desiccation which is not good for cuttings.

Good luck!

 

[AlainK]

From what I know, if temperatures go below 5° C, it's the coldest you can have in Jo'burg. If it's so, I'd say the chances they take are pretty good...

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

So, did these take? Any updates?

 

[Dorian Fourie]

So, did these take? Any updates?

Hi yes, great success. I was very happy with the end results and learnt quite a few lessons for my next attempt.

I had a 75 % success rate with most of the thickest cuttings giving roots.



Some of the lessons I learnt.

1. The next attempt, I will use a deeper container so that I can put more perlite in. The layer that I used was very thin and could of been deeper.
2. I planted out the cuttings into a mix of Leca and perlite and placed it outside. Apart from the fact that my cats loved it and used it as a litter box (thereby scratching all the cuttings around and letting their roots dry out) I will look at a medium that moist for longer to let the roots establish themselves better.
3. I will take longer cuttings allowing for 2 sets of buds per cutting. I have found that after planting them out, one set is just not strong enough to ensure that they survive. If you break off one of the pieces of growth by accident, then your cutting is doomed to fail.

Will I do it again? Hell yeah.
Before and after the cats.

 

[aml1014]

I'm hoping I have some good success. I started 10 about a week ago, they still have leaves so I guess, so far so good lol

Aaron

 

[itsfullofstars]

100% perlite???
Has anyone tried this with japanese maples, have you had better success with 100% perlite?

 

[aml1014]

100% perlite???
Has anyone tried this with japanese maples, have you had better success with 100% perlite?

My teacher swears by 100% vermiculite for her JM cuttings, she seems to be the only person in NM that can consistently root them!lol

Aaron

 

[Eric Group]

100% perlite???
Has anyone tried this with japanese maples, have you had better success with 100% perlite?

I use perlite for pretty much everything- Maples, Azalea, Quince, CM... Pretty much anything you can root...

Perlite is much better than vermiculite in my experience. More porous, light weight, falls off the new roots easier....
JM are easier to root than Trident. Young growth, old growth.. All the way up to 2+ inches thick have been successful for me on JM. Taken all times through the growing season from early Soring prior to bud break up through late a Summer. Rooting hormone or no, doesn't seem to matter. Keep em wet and in medium shade.
Should be easy!

 

[Dorian Fourie]

I haven't tried JM large scale. I have only taken a limited amount of JM cuttings (5 - 10) and pushed them into the soil and so far I have had about a 50 - 60 % success rate.

 

[Eric Group]

I haven't tried JM large scale. I have only taken a limited amount of JM cuttings (5 - 10) and pushed them into the soil and so far I have had about a 50 - 60 % success rate.

Yeah, that is a good! 50-60% is a decent success rate for most any tree. 75%+ is rare but possible with a good rooting medium and a very "willing" variety! It seems Elms are pretty easy, so are Pomegranate and even Shimpaku Can be quite easy... The problem with Shimpaku is that a high percentage of cuttings seem to only root on one side or they root at very irregular intervals along the length of the cutting. Just got into doing Chojubai last year, they are kind of hard by comparison to other species. I have had success, but after a few months a small number that root just drop leaves and die. The heat is rough on them. The ones ,eat after the hottest part of summer has passed now should be fine. They seem to like a really wet soil especially when very young. I am starting Goji Berry now and they seem to be very easy so far! 3/4 in my first little trial run made it just fine... Regarding JM- the red leafed and rough bark varieties are harder to root than "regular" Palmatum... Koto Hime is a pretty easy one to root I have heard. The first round I tried two years ago pretty much all crapped out on me because I didn't water them enough (relied on a sprinkler that got blocked by a tree limb), but one tiny one survived... And that one turned into three this year, should turn into a MILLION or so next year". .

I am sure the percentages can go up even higher if people get heating pads and use complicated cloning tents that cost hundreds of dollars, misting systems and humidity meters... Is that all worth it to move success rates from 75-80% up to about 90% maybe? I guess it depends on the quantity? As a "hobbiest", I tend to be more of a "stick em in the pot, add water" kind of guy!

I never had success in the 50-60% range with JM in regular "soil"... That is why I started using Perlite- easy to find, light weight, porous, sterile... Perfect for cuttings!

I could go on and on about propagation... I spend a lot of time on it!

Just to give you an idea- this is what I have left from the cuttings I took this Spring (sold quite a few on FB...) the weed eaten beds in back are what is left of a Strawberry and blueberry patch that never yields much of anything (damn squitprrels pick it clean!) .. All the flats and individual pots on the landscape cloth represent the Curtings, there is probably half this many more to the left of this image... Not ALL were from this Spring, and a few were seed grown JBP, but mostly this was production from one year of messing around and sticking branches Most would throw away into some perlite... Just to give a quick count- the trays have 18- 3" pots per tray. I think there are 9 or 10 trays in this pic, one off to the right, a bunch of individual pots with larger cuttings and air layers, a bunch more individuals to the left of this shot and 1.5 more trays filled just this weekend mostly with Miyuki Azalea cuttings that were rooted and transplanted to potting soil in these little individual 3" tray containers. As they grow and fill the little pots I either sell them or move them up to larger ones... If they don't make it? No harm no foul... Was just a branch that was going to go into the compost anyway! Something real exciting about making something from nothing! Easily one of my favorite obsessions within this hobby...

 

[Eric Group]

I'm hoping I have some good success. I started 10 about a week ago, they still have leaves so I guess, so far so good lol

Aaron

10 weeks with green leaves? A good sign for sure! Tridents? They can be deceptive.. Sometimes they callous up real heavy and don't make roots, but will stay "alive" for... Years! Especially larger ones... If it starts pushing new growth, you have roots. If it is just barely clinging to life with the same old tired leaves on it, you might have one of those "zombie" cuttings! LOL

 

[Dorian Fourie]

As a "hobbiest", I tend to be more of a "stick em in the pot, add water" kind of guy!

That is me to a Tee.

I do not have the space to do cuttings on a large scale and the tray of TM cuttings were only done as I wanted to create a clump style trident maple where you put the cuttings through a tile etc.

It looks like that was not a success as only 2 of the lot have leaves on them now (Again I blame the cats thinking it is a litter box). But I will try the cuttings again and learn from my mistakes.

I do know that pyracantha and bougainvillea take easily with cuttings. Both of those I have just stuck cuttings on the ground and they have rooted.

 

[aml1014]

10 weeks with green leaves? A good sign for sure! Tridents? They can be deceptive.. Sometimes they callous up real heavy and don't make roots, but will stay "alive" for... Years! Especially larger ones... If it starts pushing new growth, you have roots. If it is just barely clinging to life with the same old tired leaves on it, you might have one of those "zombie" cuttings! LOL

Lol I don't know how "weeks" got typed, I meant days lol I swear my phone has a mind of its own!

Aaron

 

[rollwithak]

Hi yes, great success. I was very happy with the end results and learnt quite a few lessons for my next attempt.

I had a 75 % success rate with most of the thickest cuttings giving roots.

View attachment 116233 View attachment 116234 View attachment 116235

Some of the lessons I learnt.

1. The next attempt, I will use a deeper container so that I can put more perlite in. The layer that I used was very thin and could of been deeper.
2. I planted out the cuttings into a mix of Leca and perlite and placed it outside. Apart from the fact that my cats loved it and used it as a litter box (thereby scratching all the cuttings around and letting their roots dry out) I will look at a medium that moist for longer to let the roots establish themselves better.
3. I will take longer cuttings allowing for 2 sets of buds per cutting. I have found that after planting them out, one set is just not strong enough to ensure that they survive. If you break off one of the pieces of growth by accident, then your cutting is doomed to fail.

Will I do it again? Hell yeah.
Before and after the cats.
View attachment 116237 View attachment 116236

Woah this is crazy! I didn’t realize you could take cuttings from such thick branches! Very cool.

 

[SeanS]

@Dorian Fourie how did these do? I’m looking for trident stock to start a tree with if you’ve got any you’d like to part with...