trident maple management

[jimlau]

here is a trident. all branches, except a bottom 1, are new this year. 2 questions:

1 - do i let them all grow unpruned to thicken, or perhaps prune the top 2 to focus more energy down below? or prune side ones to start some ramiication? the internode distance is high tho, so i guess it could be a waste to prune them since the next buds will pop at a current node which is quite far from the trunk nd thus likely would not be useful net year.

2 - will a new branch lignify enough by winter so that in the spring buds don't only pop at a current leaf node?

thanks

 

[Adair M]

You will only get spring buds at internodals. Never between.

Wire now to set the base of your branches at the angle you want.

Let it grow about 2 to 3 weeks.

Remove wire.

Then Cut Back to the first up/down pair of leaves. Yes, you will remove about 90 percent of the foliage. Let it grow out. When the two terminal shoots start growing, remove the bottom one completely.

When the top terminal shoot gets 6 to 8 new leaves, wire. Let it grow for 2 to 3 weeks.

Remove wire.

Cut back.

Repeat.

This process builds branches with taper.

Yes, it takes a long time.

 

[jimlau]

You will only get spring buds at internodals. Never between.

Wire now to set the base of your branches at the angle you want.

Let it grow about 2 to 3 weeks.

Remove wire.

Then Cut Back to the first up/down pair of leaves. Yes, you will remove about 90 percent of the foliage. Let it grow out. When the two terminal shoots start growing, remove the bottom one completely.

When the top terminal shoot gets 6 to 8 new leaves, wire. Let it grow for 2 to 3 weeks.

Remove wire.

Cut back.

Repeat.

This process builds branches with taper.

Yes, it takes a long time.

why go through all that if the first internode is far from the trunk? once I get a closer bud, hopefully next year sometime, won't I remove all that work you mentioned?

so does it take a few seasons to get the branches as hardwood and thus can get buds anywhere on the branch?


thanks.

 

[Bunjeh]

You will only get spring buds at internodals. Never between.

Wire now to set the base of your branches at the angle you want.

Let it grow about 2 to 3 weeks.

Remove wire.

Then Cut Back to the first up/down pair of leaves. Yes, you will remove about 90 percent of the foliage. Let it grow out. When the two terminal shoots start growing, remove the bottom one completely.

When the top terminal shoot gets 6 to 8 new leaves, wire. Let it grow for 2 to 3 weeks.

Remove wire.

Cut back.

Repeat.

This process builds branches with taper.

Yes, it takes a long time.

Outstanding "building taper for dummies!" Will this work with all deciduous trees or just maples. I have some hawthorns that are out of control.

 

[jquast]

why go through all that if the first internode is far from the trunk? once I get a closer bud, hopefully next year sometime, won't I remove all that work you mentioned?
so does it take a few seasons to get the branches as hardwood and thus can get buds anywhere on the branch?
thanks.

tridents are a bit different, they won't break buds between the nodes.

 

[Dav4]

tridents are a bit different, they won't break buds between the nodes.

I'm not sure any maple does...

 

[Adair M]

Maples only bud at internodals. That's why we like to use varieties with short internodes.

You won't ever get a bud between the trunk and the first internode. You might get another bud to break where the branch connects to the trunk, but it won't be on the branch. It will be off the trunk.

I'm sorry I couldn't give you the answer you wanted. But what I gave you is the way to do it. If you want it done right.

 

[Adair M]

Outstanding "building taper for dummies!" Will this work with all deciduous trees or just maples. I have some hawthorns that are out of control.

The technique pretty much applies to any deciduous tree.

Maples: you know how the leaves come out in pairs? One set side to side, the next is up/down? Use the "up" bud. Yes, the new growth will go up. So, you have to wire it down while the shoot is still green.

Why not use the "down" bud? What happens on full size trees is the "up" bud is the strongest. The down bud will eventually get shaded out, the tree will stuff it off.

Go look at a mature hardwood tree. You'll see their branches form a structure that looks like a series of little hills. Rather than a series of little valleys.

This concept, by the way, is directly opposite to John Naka's books! Unfortunately, John got this one wrong. Alas...

 

[jimlau]

tridents are a bit different, they won't break buds between the nodes.

wow, so even a hardwood, old branch, will never pop a node at random places along it, like how they do on trunks?

anyway, will use your method.

thanks.

 

[Eric Group]

wow, so even a hardwood, old branch, will never pop a node at random places along it, like how they do on trunks?

anyway, will use your method.

thanks.

Even on the trunks, the buds only pop from where a node once was.. Other than that, you basically have to graft branches into place... Which is a widely used option of course!

 

[jimlau]

Even on the trunks, the buds only pop from where a node once was.. Other than that, you basically have to graft branches into place... Which is a widely used option of course!

I guess a key is to pinch early on before the internode distance gets big?

 

[Eric Group]

I guess a key is to pinch early on before the internode distance gets big?

All depends on what you are trying to do with the tree. Are you happy with the trunk size/ shape? If not, you might one day wind up chopping it all the way down to the lowest branch and using it as the new leader to form a new trunk with better movement/ taper! Then it won't matter one bit what type of intermodal distance these branches had on them. Truth be told- as Adair mentioned earlier- there are multiple types of a Tridents. Some have large leaves and long internodes and take a lot of attention to keep the leaves and internodes reduced enough for smaller trees, others have naturally got smaller leaves and intermodal distance and make easier/ better small trees... Yours looks to be one of the larger leafed varieties, and probably needs a big honking trunk to be in proportion... So I don't think branch development should be your primary concern right now- it needs to grow out some IMO. Then, select branches and worry about proper form.

One more thing to look for when you do get to developing branches on a Maple- the baby leaves! I forget the "technical name" for them, but when a new branch forms, many times the first node is very close to the trunk and grows only a couple little baby leaves that eventually fall off, and the first set of full leaves comes after that. Usually, dormant buds are stored at that node, and cutting back to it can induce growth to initiate from there... Which gives you a first inter nodal distance that is very short.

Short answer to your question though is yeah, that would work. Pinch new growth... But if done too early it might just die off.. If done too late, that first node is already too long. Most trees grow their shortest nodes on a branch allowed to run at the first node or two, then it gets longer as the branch picks up steam, so cutting back to that should yield similar results to the pinch, but with faster growth and development of everything behind that node.

 

[wireme]

A trick to produce shorter internodes from the get go- don't prune back to the buds you want to keep in spring, prune instead to one or two sets of buds distal.
The buds at the pruning site will grow long internodes, those behind it closer to the trunk will have shorter nodes and can be pruned back to once internodal distance is set, ie: hardened off. It can be a useful trick during early development.

 

[Bunjeh]

So I attempted this with one of my more gangly hawthorns. Let's see.

 

[M. Frary]

So I attempted this with one of my more gangly hawthorns. Let's see.

Hawthorns are different from maples. You can just let a branch grow out to thickness and cut it back to wherever you want. They put out buds all along the branch and will grow out of the cut end too.
They also sprout buds all over the trunk too when chopped.

 

[leatherback]

don't prune back to the buds you want to keep in spring, prune instead to one or two sets of buds distal.

Cool tip. Never thought about it, but yeah, makes sense!

 

[leatherback]

What I find on several maples now is that late spring/early summer growth is a lot finer than early spring growth; Letting the tree do it's thing in spring, and when the flush is gong, trim back, creates shorter internodes. Not sure whether this is gambling with the health of the tree though