Trident Maple trunk binding questions

Schmikah

Shohin
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I've looked around and I haven't found any discussion on binding maples specifically, so here's the question.

I just came into three trident maple seedlings (about 2 feet tall, 1/4 to 1/2 in diameter roughly) and I was wondering if trunk binding is a viable option for getting some trunk thickness, relatively, quickly.

I'm thinking about turning them into shohin either way (separately or together). Ground growing isn't really an option in zone 7 so they'll need to be potted either way. On that note, due to the relatively straight growth at the moment, I'm thinking formal and/or informal upright would be a good option.

Please send advice and/or hate mail. 😅
 

Lars Grimm

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Can you clarify what you mean by binding? Trunk fusion is a common technique. Threading seedlings through a board to get the nebari to fuse is also a common technique.
 

moke

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Do a search for maple fusion there are many threads, Here’s a very good one.
 

Adair M

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Well, I’ve seen several attempts of people trying to do something like this. I haven’t seen one that I would care to own. Proceed at your own risk!

I think you would do better by just using sacrifice branches ( or a series of sacrifice apex extensions) to build a trunk.
 

Shibui

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I'm with Adair on this. I've seen many trident fusion attempts but none I can recall that was attractive. Yes they fuse easily but you will need to reduce the height of some of the fused trunks which generally leaves large scars and occasionally a dead part of the new trunk. Most end up thick but with very little taper. People attempting fusing usually concentrate only on getting the trunks to fuse and forget about branches ending up with a thick trunk with no branches.
I've currently got 2 under way using a lot of trunks. They have been grown quite slowly so I can maintain control over the taper and branching of the new combined trunk. I've found that I can achieve the same trunk size in a similar time using a single tree and ground growing so I'll give fusion a miss in future.
Having said that I have several worthwhile clumps made by fusing a number of smaller trunks only at the base. This can also go wrong but produces better results more often.

As he said above - proceed at own risk.
 

Schmikah

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@Adair M @Shibui thanks for the warning. I'll have to post a few pics to give a better idea of what I'm working with. My main concern is that if I ground grow them, or even pot grow them, for thickness, if I take them back to shohin size I'll have that major scaring when I chop back for height.

On that note, and again I'll need to post some pictures when I get home to illustrate, I was hoping to use the two smaller seedlings as mid branches to create an automatic taper once they fuse. Basically, having them bend away from the main "trunk" to create two primary branches with the third, thicker, seedling acting as the apex. I've attached a bad MS paint below for rough picture of what I'm trying to convey. Branches are color coded for your pleasure.

My philosophy at the moment is, I got them for free, and there is no shortage of trident maples on the market if this flops. So, I've lost nothing if its ugly, and if it works then great. Then again, by tomorrow I'll probably have changed my mind again so who knows.

But please tell me if you think my poorly explained plan might work, in so much as creating believable taper. Just as a reminder, I have about two feet of twig to work with so even if the taper is too drastic for shohin I can always go full size and just let it grow in a training pot for a few years to get some girth.

Then again I need to do some looking and see if its likely that the trunks will ever actually "blend". If not then I will be following your advice and growing separately.
 

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Adair M

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@Adair M @Shibui thanks for the warning. I'll have to post a few pics to give a better idea of what I'm working with. My main concern is that if I ground grow them, or even pot grow them, for thickness, if I take them back to shohin size I'll have that major scaring when I chop back for height.

On that note, and again I'll need to post some pictures when I get home to illustrate, I was hoping to use the two smaller seedlings as mid branches to create an automatic taper once they fuse. Basically, having them bend away from the main "trunk" to create two primary branches with the third, thicker, seedling acting as the apex. I've attached a bad MS paint below for rough picture of what I'm trying to convey. Branches are color coded for your pleasure.

My philosophy at the moment is, I got them for free, and there is no shortage of trident maples on the market if this flops. So, I've lost nothing if its ugly, and if it works then great. Then again, by tomorrow I'll probably have changed my mind again so who knows.

But please tell me if you think my poorly explained plan might work, in so much as creating believable taper. Just as a reminder, I have about two feet of twig to work with so even if the taper is too drastic for shohin I can always go full size and just let it grow in a training pot for a few years to get some girth.

Then again I need to do some looking and see if its likely that the trunks will ever actually "blend". If not then I will be following your advice and growing separately.
Here are the problems;

You’ll have a lumpy trunk. They’ll fuse, but it takes years. And they don’t fuse consistently. You might get little gaps. Unless your trees were all started as cuttings from the same tree, the leaves will be different because they’ll have different genetics. So, some branches might have large leaves, others small. Or different shapes. Or colors. Regardless, it won’t look consistent.

Tridents heal scars relatively quickly, if you let a sacrifice branch go. Of course, you create another scar to heal when you do that, it’s a process!

I really think you need to study up a bit...

Or not... go ahead and try it, and determine for yourself!
 

Schmikah

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[QUOTE="Adair M, post: 711378, member: 13405"
I really think you need to study up a bit...
[/QUOTE]
Shots fired. 😁

I've looked at some pictures for several fused trunks. You're right. The trunks really don't ever completely fuse. Looks like I will be planting one in the ground, one in a pot (very large) and one in a training pot (that one will probably end up being the shohin, so I'll try to keep the growth slow so I can control it, hopefully without the need to too much chopping later).

Thanks for the words of wisdom.
 

rockm

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Well, I’ve seen several attempts of people trying to do something like this. I haven’t seen one that I would care to own. Proceed at your own risk!

I think you would do better by just using sacrifice branches ( or a series of sacrifice apex extensions) to build a trunk.
Yup. Fused trunk aren't all that. Short cuts rarely are.

Sounds like you've never grown tridents. There is no real reason to fuse trunks, when simple ground growing produces a more attractive trunk in the same time, in a more reliable way. Chops heal quickly and are quickly disguised with new growth both in limbs and on the trunk itself.
 

Schmikah

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Yup. Fused trunk aren't all that. Short cuts rarely are.

Sounds like you've never grown tridents. There is no real reason to fuse trunks, when simple ground growing produces a more attractive trunk in the same time, in a more reliable way. Chops heal quickly and are quickly disguised with new growth both in limbs and on the trunk itself.

True, this will be my first go at it. I'm trying to catch up on my reading for them.
 

leatherback

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In case you are worried about them growing in a pot..

March 20, 2019
20190320_R14A1332.jpg

September 1, 2019
20190901_44.jpg
 

Schmikah

Shohin
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Yup. Fused trunk aren't all that. Short cuts rarely are.

Sounds like you've never grown tridents. There is no real reason to fuse trunks, when simple ground growing produces a more attractive trunk in the same time, in a more reliable way. Chops heal quickly and are quickly disguised with new growth both in limbs and on the trunk itself.


Did some more reading. I'm thinking about using the "board threading" trick to get some nabari. I'm going to try to get one of them in the ground within the next week or so (just transplanting without touching the roots) And the other two will be test subjects.
 
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