Trident Maple v. NINGPOENCE

[cmeg1]

So with help of some bonsainut people,This local Trident seems this variety NINGPOENCE…..I am honestly ready to give it a go since local and fresh…….The descriptions say a somewhat more dwarf seedling variation…..not a cultivar.
The leaves look rather small or at least capable of being so in the near trunk pics I took today……( first picture)…..Any experiance anyone?
I also read this name is synonymous with the other seedling varieties more or less.

The color is great in an online picture the last picture.

I am ready to give it a go with a crop and wonder if the online seed is possibly a variety such as this and I’m wasting my time with online seed.

 

[discusmike]

I would love to see how they grow, maybe you can grow some standard seed also and compare results

 

[cmeg1]

I would love to see how they grow, maybe you can grow some standard seed also and compare results

Yeah like even in pictures of standard seed I see online have leaves that are really oblong and kind of resemble these you know and I’m sure the seed is readily cross pollinate too.

I’m only just wondering of internode length and backbuds in as these seem really thick branched and slightly different ,but I don’t see too many trident.
I did see an amazing cultivar in a housing development around here while I was delivering groceries and for the life of me I cannot remember where,but it was awesome.

 

[BrightsideB]

This is interesting you posted this. Next to the building I work in there are two tridents like I’ve never seen with light brown bark that is peeling back but no difference in the older and new bark color. The leaves are oblong like you posted in the photo. And the few new leaders it grew have the more longer tri leaf shape. I took like 20 seedlings and this is what they look like.

 

[BrightsideB]

 

[cmeg1]

Yes is nice………….I will do a small Flat….I will dedicate more room for the korean Hornbeam seed I have …………..If they are good growing I will do more.
Funny I make these impulse selections of trees……Don’t know till’ you try…….Regular defoliation could prove very interesting.

I found other ones today too….check it!

The leaves were very durable

 

[Rivian]

I thought it was a subspecies. Regional variety from the Chinese Ningpoense region.

You can grow them from semi-hardwood and hardwood cuttings in leaf, if theyre thinn. Expect to use the whole growing season though
Do not layer well at all. Just callus (3/3)

If you take seedlings I dont think you can call them Ningpoense.

 

[Shibui]

The long, spade shaped leaves seems to be standard adult foliage. Most tridents seem to develop those leaves as they get bigger and older even though they had 'normal' leaves when younger.

 

[sorce]

Take a cutting, you know we bout that, take some Cuttings, Rootin' things we be bout....

Sorce

 

[penumbra]

If you take seedlings I dont think you can call them Ningpoense.

This applies to cultivars and not regional seedling varieties.

 

[Rivian]

This applies to cultivars and not regional seedling varieties.

So if you take seedlings from a ningpoense that is likely getting crosspollinated with regular trident, the seedlings are all ningpoense? No.

 

[cmeg1]

The long, spade shaped leaves seems to be standard adult foliage. Most tridents seem to develop those leaves as they get bigger and older even though they had 'normal' leaves when younger.

This is what I wanted to hear I’m gonna collect the seeds and grow them what the heck I absolutely never have grown trident.

 

[cmeg1]

So if you take seedlings from a ningpoense that is likely getting crosspollinated with regular trident, the seedlings are all ningpoense? No.

Yeah this is a seedling variety kind of like a korean Hornbeam and a turczaninowii Hornbeam they’re both turczaninowii,but you have coreana and then the regular …..the regular has the longer salmon pinkish leaves or orange …..and a Coreana‘s have the tri-colored shorter leaves Koreana is a variety of turczaninowii…….
Both of which I believe I am germinating over the winter also.

i’m going to collect seeds from this trident because it’s local and the leaves have so much substance it’s absolutely beautiful I can tell they’re gonna have amazing color too and they seem so vigorous so we don’t know till we find out I may grow both varieties online and this special one that I have local

 

[cmeg1]

The latest photos above are trees on the edge of the road in industrial business parks I don’t know if I’ll be able to find the owner the the leaves are bearing so much seed I may just grab a handful …….I’m horrible

 

[penumbra]

So if you take seedlings from a ningpoense that is likely getting crosspollinated with regular trident, the seedlings are all ningpoense? No.

We are talking apples and oranges here. I am not saying it is a cultivar. Cultivars are cultivated. It is a variety, which are all too common in nature and there are hundreds of examples. If a seedling variety is cloned and named, it is then a cultivar. After spending over 40 years in the nursery trade and 60 years in horticulture I have seen so many that I have forgotten most of what I knew.
Check it out, varieties are quite common and if you look into it you will be surprised. One of the more recent examples I have experience with are the tiny leaved Japanese maples offered by Mr Maple called Bonsai Babies. They are seedling grown from a variety of JM that has tight internodes and very small leaves. They are very consistent. I also have "varieties" of Jack Pine and Scots Pine that were collected trees that in no way resemble the growth habits of the norm. They come from localized pockets of seedling varieties. There are thousands upon thousands of seedling varieties that are unnamed or yet unknown.
Of course if you have a cross like you have suggested, it is no longer an accepted variety because it carries the genes of both parent plants.

 

[Rivian]

I never brought up cultivars. Regional varieties are destroyed by outbreeding just as any other kind of variety would be, though.
If the seedlings grow up to match the variety description, then maybe they can inherit the name
Until then theyre seedlings from ninpoense, or simply tridents.

 

[penumbra]

I never brought up cultivars. Regional varieties are destroyed by outbreeding just as any other kind of variety would be, though.
If the seedlings grow up to match the variety description, then maybe they can inherit the name
Until then theyre seedlings from ninpoense, or simply tridents.

Carry on.

 

[cmeg1]

Carry on.

I think it was Wolfgang Putz’ website years ago who showed me a tokanoma theory and stated

‘the tree is for man ‘
‘The scroll for heaven’
‘The accent plant for earth’

I suddenly just got all this stuff
About trees and seedlings and such…………

yes….varieties and cultivars

JK!!!!!

 

[Shibui]

Varieties evolve in isolated areas where they have bred with each other for thousands or even millions of years so they have usually become stable and will be true to variety from seed unless someone has introduced new genes as in gardens with other types close by.
Many vegetables and domestic livestock have been line bred for enough generations to ensure they will breed true to type so Doberman dogs breed Doberman dogs and Rhode Island red hens breed Rhode island red chickens unless we cross them with other varieties.
Cultivars are a single individual that displays difference from the usual population. Some are the result of cross breeding which will be unstable but others may have stable genes so convention is that cultivars must be asexually propagated to maintain the characteristics so customers get what they thought they were paying for.

Sub-species is another level of confusion to throw into the plant kingdom.

 

[cmeg1]

SEEMS I MADE AN ERROR HERE

This is not a variety of Trident maple…ningpoence……It is an older scientific taxonomic synonym for Trident Maple….actually are several for Trident Maple.

I’m actually quite glad about it and very excited to have seedds from local tridents!!!

Check the 2 foot trunk……. These are quite rare in my area actually I do not see too many of them.
I have green seeds collected a few weeks ago stratafying now they were quite hard and I believe they’re fine ,but I will collect another crop when the wings start to turn yellow and brown here in a few weeks just in case.

These Trident Maple are in sun all day…. sunrise till’ sunset!!! That’s pretty good exposure considering we get 100°F here sometimes in summer and actually quite cold winters down to 0°F.