Trident Maples bloomed then stopped, Chinese elms green but no buds

[power270lb]

I don't get it. My trident maple started to bloom then stopped and is still green when I scratch it. Chinese Elm and cuttings haven't bloomed once and are all still green on the inside. Very puzzling. Everything else is great.

 

[penumbra]

Doesn't sound good. I am a bit cooler and mine have been out well over a month. I guess its just wait and see. Good luck.
The only plants I have that didn't leaf out this year are ones that got a bit too dry this past winter.

 

[rockm]

Sudden inactivity signals some kind of shock to the plant, most likely to the roots. Could be a number of things, from high temperatures, to overwatering or underwatering, fungal attack, etc. Hard to tell without knowing specifics of care, location (inside or outside, sun exposure), etc.

 

[power270lb]

Doesn't sound good. I am a bit cooler and mine have been out well over a month. I guess its just wait and see. Good luck.
The only plants I have that didn't leaf out this year are ones that got a bit too dry this past winter.

I'll admit I didn't hardcore protect them like I did my first winter but they were left out along with everything else and all my dawn Redwoods, Japanese willows lol even a succulent with flowers totally forget the name but the flowers open with the sun. I thought I killed this thing end of summer. Had it for a week and literally left it alone until last week. Thought weeds were growing out of it. There's like 30+ flowers lmfao. I contemplated leaving the elm inside again like last year because it was late in the winter but left it out all winter.

 

[power270lb]

Sudden inactivity signals some kind of shock to the plant, most likely to the roots. Could be a number of things, from high temperatures, to overwatering or underwatering, fungal attack, etc. Hard to tell without knowing specifics of care, location (inside or outside, sun exposure), etc.

The Trident is in lava rock, pumice and DE, didn't change anything did like I usually do. So strange.

 

[penumbra]

A root inspection is warranted.

 

[rockm]

The Trident is in lava rock, pumice and DE, didn't change anything did like I usually do. So strange.

That's a pretty lean soil mix for a trident. Might have something to do with what's going on.If you left it outside unprotected in such a mix over the winter, it could dry out pretty quickly. Dry roots freeze a lot more easily than roots with moisture around them....NEVER keep elms inside, period. It's not a good thing, even though the elm can limp through a winter or two inside, it contributes greatly to their eventual death (people will argue no end this isn't the case, but it is, particularly for beginners).

 

[HorseloverFat]

Agreed, this seems like a "Killed in winter - Waking up to let you know" - situation.

I know the "look"!

 

[penumbra]

I am pretty sure rockm is right and that the roots desiccated.
But on the mater of the elms, I am flummoxed. I have dozens of elms of all kinds and they always stay outside. The only two elms I ever lost outside were Cedar Elms that I think dried out three years back. The only Chinese Elms I ever lost were a few I tried to keep inside. I have a lot of them outside where they have been for 2 to 5 years. Even after this past cold winter, they are all fine and growing like weeds. My American Elm, Slippery Elm, Siberian Elm and Hybrid Elms are likewise doing fine outdoors.

 

[sorce]

I didn't hardcore protect

What does this consist of? Mulch?

Does the soil on top represent well what is throughout?
How big of DE?

Soil so large is way too dry IMO.

It seems the "hardcore protection" could have prevented quick drying that year, rather than what we may assume to be protection against "the harsh winter" that saved it.
It's those false conclusions that make us fear winter which should never be feared.

Too...
If the DE is small.....

Year one may have been ok while year 2 proved to settle all the DE to the bottom which can cause all sorts of problems.

What does a toothpick probe up a drain hole indicate?

Sorce

 

[HorseloverFat]

What does this consist of? Mulch?

Does the soil on top represent well what is throughout?
How big of DE?

Soil so large is way too dry IMO.

It seems the "hardcore protection" could have prevented quick drying that year, rather than what we may assume to be protection against "the harsh winter" that saved it.
It's those false conclusions that make us fear winter which should never be feared.

Too...
If the DE is small.....

Year one may have been ok while year 2 proved to settle all the DE to the bottom which can cause all sorts of problems.

What does a toothpick probe up a drain hole indicate?

Sorce

Thanks for this... I hadn't considered that "Year-two de smaller particle settling"... Two years ago, I was still fast and loose with my substrate mixing.. and some trees are still in that soil..

I will definitely assess them.

 

[sorce]

I am familiar with the displeasures of these types of soil.
This is one I got late last summer from @A. Gorilla .


The wind blew it over and out so I was able to learn some.
All the larger particles not directly amidst the smaller stuff fell out easily like it was completely ignored by the roots. "Inhospitable" if you will.

Truth, if a soil sounds crunchy, it is no good, it doesn't feel good to the soul.

More importantly......

We have to understand that no matter how much we water, the PRESSURE has to be greater than that of the inside of those deep pores of that large (lave, pumice) particle, greater than the surface tension repelling that water.

It's probably impossible to thoroughly wet such large particles without dunking them.

There is the test. Water regularly, then submerge it and watch the minutes of bubbling.

Every bit of that bubbling is wasted space.
No roots in it, no water, no life. Just wasted space.

I have to water these twice a day or they wilt.

Perhaps dunking could provide so much water they last 3 days?

It is better after consistent rainfall.

That is too large of a difference, causes too much inconsistency in water availability, which causes inconsistencies in growth, which makes it less predictable, which is harder to design.

Lessen all variables, beginning with soil particle size!

Sorce

 

[dbonsaiw]

NEVER keep elms inside, period.

Some anecdotal evidence - my son and I were told to keep our elms indoors as they supposedly came from a colder climate in China (could have been grown in Nebraska for all I know). Mine was cheaper and less developed, so I just left him out with the rest of my trees for the winter. My son's was pricier and, in an attempt to keep it healthier, placed it in his grow tent for the winter. The indoor elm was not happy. It appears to have lost two flushes of leaves over the winter and is just now starting to leaf out again outdoors. The debate is over for my son - he will never bring it inside again.

 

[rockm]

Some anecdotal evidence - my son and I were told to keep our elms indoors as they supposedly came from a colder climate in China (could have been grown in Nebraska for all I know). Mine was cheaper and less developed, so I just left him out with the rest of my trees for the winter. My son's was pricier and, in an attempt to keep it healthier, placed it in his grow tent for the winter. The indoor elm was not happy. It appears to have lost two flushes of leaves over the winter and is just now starting to leaf out again outdoors. The debate is over for my son - he will never bring it inside again.

Uh, just curious--did the person who advised you to keep a colder climate elm indoors give any reason why? Seems pretty obvious that a "cold climate" elm would not have a problem with a cold climate...

 

[dbonsaiw]

My typo, warmer climate. Sorry

 

[power270lb]

That's a pretty lean soil mix for a trident. Might have something to do with what's going on.If you left it outside unprotected in such a mix over the winter, it could dry out pretty quickly. Dry roots freeze a lot more easily than roots with moisture around them....NEVER keep elms inside, period. It's not a good thing, even though the elm can limp through a winter or two inside, it contributes greatly to their eventual death (people will argue no end this isn't the case, but it is, particularly for beginners).

Which is why I left them outside of this winter. My dawn Redwoods are in the Same soil and ATM they're thriving. My Elm is in the mix it came in (good draining garden soil) and I got it last December and kept inside but wanted to make sure I left everything out this winter. It's just so weird why the Trident bloomed little leaves then stopped completely.

 

[power270lb]

I am pretty sure rockm is right and that the roots desiccated.
But on the mater of the elms, I am flummoxed. I have dozens of elms of all kinds and they always stay outside. The only two elms I ever lost outside were Cedar Elms that I think dried out three years back. The only Chinese Elms I ever lost were a few I tried to keep inside. I have a lot of them outside where they have been for 2 to 5 years. Even after this past cold winter, they are all fine and growing like weeds. My American Elm, Slippery Elm, Siberian Elm and Hybrid Elms are likewise doing fine outdoors.

Ugh I'm like crushed ATM. Only plants I've lost to date are carnivore plants and for whatever reason they die when I re-pot. Under the bark they're all green. I did prune very hard but I chopped roughly 3-4 feet off my Japanese willows and they're all bursting with buds a week later.

 

[power270lb]

What does this consist of? Mulch?

Does the soil on top represent well what is throughout?
How big of DE?

Soil so large is way too dry IMO.

It seems the "hardcore protection" could have prevented quick drying that year, rather than what we may assume to be protection against "the harsh winter" that saved it.
It's those false conclusions that make us fear winter which should never be feared.

Too...
If the DE is small.....

Year one may have been ok while year 2 proved to settle all the DE to the bottom which can cause all sorts of problems.

What does a toothpick probe up a drain hole indicate?

Sorce

The DE is optisorb #8925 tbh not sure of the exact measurements. Hardcore protection my first winter consisted of a large box and mulch all throughout. This winter I put in a box, was going to leave in the garage and left on my deck. My own fault, was lazier this winter and thought they'd be fine. Just weird why all 12 dawn redwoods in the same soil all survived.

 

[power270lb]

I am familiar with the displeasures of these types of soil.
This is one I got late last summer from @A. Gorilla .
View attachment 438712

The wind blew it over and out so I was able to learn some.
All the larger particles not directly amidst the smaller stuff fell out easily like it was completely ignored by the roots. "Inhospitable" if you will.

Truth, if a soil sounds crunchy, it is no good, it doesn't feel good to the soul.

More importantly......

We have to understand that no matter how much we water, the PRESSURE has to be greater than that of the inside of those deep pores of that large (lave, pumice) particle, greater than the surface tension repelling that water.

It's probably impossible to thoroughly wet such large particles without dunking them.

There is the test. Water regularly, then submerge it and watch the minutes of bubbling.

Every bit of that bubbling is wasted space.
No roots in it, no water, no life. Just wasted space.

I have to water these twice a day or they wilt.

Perhaps dunking could provide so much water they last 3 days?

It is better after consistent rainfall.

That is too large of a difference, causes too much inconsistency in water availability, which causes inconsistencies in growth, which makes it less predictable, which is harder to design.

Lessen all variables, beginning with soil particle size!

Sorce

I always thought DE, pine bark, lava rock and pumice was the "go to." I've even gone straight DE alone recently because I've made so many cuttings and have a 30 lb bag of it. What's your favorite soil mix?

 

[sorce]

What's your favorite soil mix?

straight DE alone

I reckon that's the best starting point at least.

Sorce