Trident maples from seed

[justBonsai]

On my morning hike to my school's botanical gardens I shamelessly stole hundreds of seeds from a trident maple tree and less from an evergreen maple (forgot the variety). Evergreen maples look very similar to tridents but they stay green year round and tolerate heat better.

My plan for next spring is to try to grow these, sell some, and keep a few for interesting projects. If I were to plant several seeds right next to each other (and assume they succesfully germinate) would the seedlings fuse together? I tried to search for some but can anyone link me a progression of trident maples from seed to mature bonsai?

Julian

 

[bonsaichile]

Maples are usually not grown from seed because there is no way to predict which variety you'll get. A seed from a trident can grow into any variety, really, because they can be cross-pollinized with any other maple variety. That's why most maples are grafted or grown from cuttings.

 

[justBonsai]

Maples are usually not grown from seed because there is no way to predict which variety you'll get. A seed from a trident can grow into any variety, really, because they can be cross-pollinized with any other maple variety. That's why most maples are grafted or grown from cuttings.

I know that. The fun of growing with seeds is that you can get a wide variety of characteristics some of which may be unique or outstanding for bonsai.

 

[Dav4]

Maples are usually not grown from seed because there is no way to predict which variety you'll get. A seed from a trident can grow into any variety, really, because they can be cross-pollinized with any other maple variety. That's why most maples are grafted or grown from cuttings.

Hmmm, not sure this is true. I've never heard of a trident maple hybridizing with other maple species. I suppose it's possible, but I would think collecting seeds from a trident would almost always yield seedlings with 100% trident characteristics, perhaps not identical to the mother but very close. By definition, cultivars have to be reproduced via asexual propagation, like grafting, but grafting is also preferred in that it gets sellable material ready for market sooner then seedlings, or cuttings for that matter. Now, I've never seen a grafted trident but I've seen many trident seedlings that look a lot like other tridents, and tridents grow so quickly from seed that I think grafting would only make sense if you were propagating a certain cultivar.

 

[justBonsai]

Regarding seed scarification I read that tridents need a 24 hour soak in hot water. Does this mean you need to maintain the water temperature for the whole scarification period or do you just put the seeds in hot water, let it cool and leave it for 24 hours?

 

[AlainK]

Hmmm, not sure this is true. I've never heard of a trident maple hybridizing with other maple species.

I second that: only species in the same seruies (or even section) can hybridize, like various maples from the section Palmata. But Acer buergerianum seeds usually give seedlings true to the species.

you can get a wide variety of characteristics some of which may be unique or outstanding

True for Acer palmatum because there are thousands of cultivars and cross-pollinisation is frequent, and other trees in the same section can be planted around (Acer shirasawanum, A. japonicum, A. pseudosieboldianum, etc.)

As for the seeds: the best time to collect them is just after leaf fall. Keep them in a mix of sans and peat, put them in the fridge for 3 months (3-5° C), then sow them. If the seeds are viable, the rate of success is very high.

A. buergerianum grow much faster than A. palmatum. Since (I think) your climate is rather warm, the growing conditions are very good - if you don't forget to water them!

PS: the evergreen maple you're mentioning must be Acer sempervirens (Cretan maple) or Acer Paxii (China). Acer paxii and Acer buergerianum are in the same section (Pentaphylla), and series (Trifida), so they can hybridize.

 

[justBonsai]

Thanks for the replies. I've seen Acer paxii before but I think the tree at the gardens was Acer sempervirens. What I meant in reply to bonsaichile's post was variety within the same species. As mentioned Acer buergerianum won't give you an acer palmatum. Regarding tridents though there are different varieties and cultivars--more notably in leaf characteristics. At my local nursery and observing the trees at my local botanical gardens I see a lot of different leaf shapes. Some tend to have more serrations while others have a much smoother profile. What I look for the most are thicker leaves. Something more leathery to resist sun and wind burn.

 

[Smoke]

All you may need to know here.

More here

 

[justBonsai]

Here's my total haul of different seeds to grow this spring:

Excited to try out the syrian maple. Looks similar to trident but with more rounded lobes and thicker leaves. It's an evergreen maple too.

 

[Eric Group]

Maples are usually not grown from seed because there is no way to predict which variety you'll get. A seed from a trident can grow into any variety, really, because they can be cross-pollinized with any other maple variety. That's why most maples are grafted or grown from cuttings.

Absolutely not true.

I grew dozens from seed this Spring and 100% sprouted as Trident. The specific traits can vary a bit- though not nearly as extreme as you may see with JM- but they WILL grow as a Trident...

My success rate wasn't super high from the collected seeds I grew, but I am going to try it again this Spring, already have a couple thousand seeds bagged up!

 

[Smoke]

My success rate wasn't super high from the collected seeds I grew, but Zillow am going to try it again this Spring, already have a couple thousand seeds bagged up!

He said "couple thousand"......

 

[Eric Group]

He said "couple thousand"......

yep, would you like some?

 

[Smoke]

Hell no, I am in trident Hell right now.

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

If you don't mind me asking, what's going on here?

 

[justBonsai]

I see why they have the float test to see whether the seed is viable or not. The winged fruit (samara) isn't the seed itself but encloses the actual seed. I split some of the samara up and a few were just hollow inside with no seed. I will do a water test later to separate my seeds.

 

[Smoke]

View attachment 119979 If you don't mind me asking, what's going on here?

Plastic canvas covering the lower trunk and roots which the squirrels ate off once and almost killed the tree.

 

[Smoke]

I see why they have the float test to see whether the seed is viable or not. The winged fruit (samara) isn't the seed itself but encloses the actual seed. I split some of the samara up and a few were just hollow inside with no seed. I will do a water test later to separate my seeds.

If you wish to scarify (to scar) them put them in a jar with a handful of pumice and shake vigorously for 5 minutes. I guarantee they will sink. Floating the hard seeds in hot water is imbibing. Not 100 percent reliable.

 

[justBonsai]

What I ended up doing with the tridents was putting the seeds between my hand and rubbing them together while dry. This helped open the husks a bit and let me identify the completely hollow nuts vs viable seeds.

Trident seeds still have not germinated yet but its early. On the other hand my syrian maple seeds have germinated. Nearly 100% success rate only of the seeds that weren't hollow. These trees are pretty cool. Leaf looks similar to trident maple but more rounded and thicker. It is an evergreen maple that I'm confident will grow better in heat compared to tridents:

You can see em popping out in the bag:

Separating them from moss:

Planted in pumice and DE fines:

Have about 60 or so of these I think, half in trays and the other half I didn't have any more trays for in the ground. As for tridents maybe 100-200. We'll see my germination rates with those.

 

[Smoke]

You poor unfortunate bastard!

 

[justBonsai]

You poor unfortunate bastard!

Is something wrong? lol