Trident Next Steps

[vahibonsai]

I started this trident from a tiny sapling 5 years ago. It's planted on a tile to make the roots spread, and I've dug it up most every year to work on the roots. Now it's getting thick enough to start thinking about next steps. Except I can't decide where it should get the chop - should I eliminate one of the top branches entirely, or cut them both evenly, or do one higher than the other?? What about the branch coming from the left side - try and use it or cut it off? Would love to hear everyone's opinions! Thanks!

 

[sorce]

I'd cut back to that left branch.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[vahibonsai]

I'd cut back to that left branch.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

Thanks for replying! So are you saying to cut above the left branch and keep it as the leader? No benefit to keeping the twin branches above?

 

[Paradox]

I think you may have waited a bit too long. You have reverse taper about where that left branch is coming out.

I dont favor cutting back to the left branch because of the angle it is at would make a weirdly shaped trunk that would feel unrealistic to me with what else is there

You need to develop taper. Keeping both trunks wont do that and just gives you an ugly "Y" shaped tree

If it were mine, I would look at rotating it counter clockwise a bit as that seems to show off the better nebari and I would do something like this:

 

[sorce]

Something about what's left when removing one of 2 trunks growing like that always puts me off.

If you figure 5 years got you 2 stems that thick, I think with attention, you can get that one that thick in 2.5.

I like the movement it offers, and you may be able to tilt it right a Bit to get that high root further in the soil.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

Thanks for replying! So are you saying to cut above the left branch and keep it as the leader? No benefit to keeping the twin branches above?

I was thinking the same strategy. But I would not cut. I would airlayer the fork off. Then let that grow strong roots and next year layer more stuff off. It is a lot of wood you have grown there. Might as well use it.

Cutting back to the small branch will mean you have 5+ years ahead to close the cut.

 

[vahibonsai]

I guess what I could do is cut the branch on the right of the Y per Paradox's photo and then if it doesn't develop as I'd like after another year in the ground I can chop it again? Anyone else have any thoughts? I really appreciate everyones' input!

 

[Paradox]

I guess what I could do is cut the branch on the right of the Y per Paradox's photo and then if it doesn't develop as I'd like after another year in the ground I can chop it again? Anyone else have any thoughts? I really appreciate everyones' input!

Yes you can try as I suggested then chop it again. Not sure I would do it in a year though.
I would see how the tree responds and see then. Might be best to wait 2 years, to give it time to get stronger if necessary.

The aim for what I suggested is to try and get another branch lower than the chop on the left trunk that you would then develop as a new leader with a better angle than the existing left branch.
That would still provide movement, but imo, movement that makes more sense than trying to use that left branch.
You might be able to use one of the really small branches that are there now, there is one on the side in your pictures that might work and would be more toward the front I think if you rotate the tree as I suggested.

My thoughts are that you would be aiming for something like this


This branch might be a possible new leader?

 

[Shibui]

I go along with what Paradox has suggested. Those chops really should have been done a few years ago and the structure would be further ahead now with probably little difference in trunk size. Most people under estimate the years it takes for large cuts to close, especially when we slow growth a bit to develop branches.

Make those cuts now. Let it grow free next summer then re-evaluate next winter. you should have some good candidates for trunk lines by then but will still need to make further large chops to get taper to whichever new leader you choose.

Whether to remove that root depends on if there is another one below it or if the trunk can be tilted enough to make it part of the nebari.

 

[vahibonsai]

Thanks everyone. I guess I was just letting it go too far. I'm in the Southeast US, so it's winter now. Should I make my move over the winter or wait until bud break in the spring? Also, thoughts on doing root pruning this year versus letting it stay in the ground? I didn't root prune last year, so it's probably in there pretty good.

 

[vahibonsai]

I go along with what Paradox has suggested. Those chops really should have been done a few years ago and the structure would be further ahead now with probably little difference in trunk size. Most people under estimate the years it takes for large cuts to close, especially when we slow growth a bit to develop branches.

Make those cuts now. Let it grow free next summer then re-evaluate next winter. you should have some good candidates for trunk lines by then but will still need to make further large chops to get taper to whichever new leader you choose.

Whether to remove that root depends on if there is another one below it or if the trunk can be tilted enough to make it part of the nebari.

Are you advocating tilting the trunk to the right or the left after possible removal of the root on the right? Thanks

 

[Shibui]

Try tilting the trunk to the right to avoid having to remove the high root. Tilt to the right may give a better trunk line to the left trunk after removing the more upright right side.
If there are better roots under that high one tilting may not be necessary or maybe slightly to the left to bring the new roots level with the ones on the left.

 

[W3rk]

What about removing the middle trunk? That would also leave you with a good branch on each side of the would to help fuel calousing over. And then cutting back the left and right. And like Shibui suggested a little tilt to the right would also lessen how rigidly straight that right side is?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I think the plan from @Paradox is probably the better of the two.

 

[vahibonsai]

I think I'm going to go with the @Paradox plan. The question remains, when should I do it? There's a ton of conflicting information out there about when to hard prune maples. It's currently winter where I am, so if I hard prune now, I'd wait until spring to do the root work. Or should I wait until spring to hard prune and do the root work at the same time???

 

[TimberLakers]

Tridents take hard chops pretty well and have had success with them in early spring. You're near there, if not a couple weeks away.

May want to get some more informed opinions about hard chopping + repotting within a few months time. That's a lot of repair work for the tree.

Assume this tree will stay in the ground post root work again?

 

[vahibonsai]

Tridents take hard chops pretty well and have had success with them in early spring. You're near there, if not a couple weeks away.

May want to get some more informed opinions about hard chopping + repotting within a few months time. That's a lot of repair work for the tree.

Assume this tree will stay in the ground post root work again?

Thanks for your response. To answer your question, my plan is to chop and do root work simultaneously and then put it right back in the ground (on top of a tile, as before). It's got a few more years of development at least before I'd consider putting it in a container. I've heard that you're supposed to root prune prior to chopping tridents to minimize bleeding (though I think the consensus is that trees, unlike people, don't bleed out and die). Thoughts?

 

[TimberLakers]

If you make nice clean cuts and seal well, it'll pull through.

I'd probably skip a year of root work to be safe, but there are far better opinions on Tridents here.

 

[Dav4]

Simultaneous chopping and root work on a healthy trident is perfectly fine. Everything is late in waking up this year in my yard, but I will expect to see some tridents begin to wake up in the next few weeks... gonna be busy soon!

 

[vahibonsai]

Simultaneous chopping and root work on a healthy trident is perfectly fine. Everything is late in waking up this year in my yard, but I will expect to see some tridents begin to wake up in the next few weeks... gonna be busy soon!

The first daffodils and crocus are popping up now, so I know the maples won't be far behind! Already have tons of flower buds on my quinces as well. Spring is my favorite season!