Trident saplings grown through washers

[cheap_walmart_art]

I saw these gnarly little tridents in the side lot of Brussels this week and figured I'd grab them, wire scars and all. They also look to have been grown through washers. While I've heard of this before, never dealt with it on a tree. Obviously it's to bulk up nebari but is the idea to let it grow over the washer and engulf it? I'm thinking I'm going to Repot these this spring and wound them in areas I'd like to see roots and hit them with hormone powder and bury deep. Just let them swallow the washers.

 

[SeanS]

No the idea (and practise) is that the washer girdles the seedling as the seedling grows and gets thicker. The girdling causes the top of the seedling to slowly get cut off from the roots, so it starts developing roots above the washer to compensate. Basically a ground layer.

Once enough new roots have formed above the washer the lower part below the washer (the old roots) are cut away and the washer removed.

This is all done to get a nice radial root spread and good start to a wide nebari

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

I picked up a field grown trident with a 3 inch trunk. When I did the first repot, I sawed downwards growing roots to get it into an Anderson flat. I kept hitting metal when I tried to saw the rootball, and couldn’t figure out what it was. After a lot of elbow grease, I got the washer dislodged after probably a decade of being stuck in the trunk. It looks like they put a washer at the base, and then forgot about it and put it into a nursery can.

Moral of the story is to get those dang things out before the tree gets too big!

 

[SeanS]

Those washers should have been removed ages ago

 

[JBP_85]

I just acquired some trident seedlings and have seen this method used in some of the reading I’ve done (though not with washers). I’ve seen others here mentioning using tile or sheet metal. I’m planning on maybe using an aluminum pie pan or perhaps a piece of ply wood with a hole punched in it for one of my seedlings. I’d be interested to hear from others on this topic and how to go about it.

 

[penumbra]

This is interesting. I may make some "clay" washers and try it out. Then I could just break the clay washer when I get to the point where it needs removal. Does anyone have a suggestion on how large these "washers" should be and how large the hole should be?

 

[SeanS]

This is interesting. I may make some "clay" washers and try it out. Then I could just break the clay washer when I get to the point where it needs removal. Does anyone have a suggestion on how large these "washers" should be and how large the hole should be?

The washer should do it’s job within 1 growing season on a vigorous trident so you’d be lifting it before the next spring to cut the old roots off and would then remove the washer. Breakable clay washers wouldn’t be necessary because you need to get the tree out of the ground to work the roots so it should be easy to remove the washer.

I’ve got a few tridents and a celtis through washers. I fitted the washers to them in September. I checked this week and the celtis and one of the tridents has already started to swell above the washer, so I have no doubt they should be completely girdled by the end of your growing season next April/May.

 

[Pitoon]

Whomever did this forgot about them.....several years ago.

Look at it this way the one in the last pic has a nice spread over the washer. Get yourself some seedlings and thread graft new roots on the sides of the spread. Once they take cut off everything below the washer.

 

[Pitoon]

This is interesting. I may make some "clay" washers and try it out. Then I could just break the clay washer when I get to the point where it needs removal. Does anyone have a suggestion on how large these "washers" should be and how large the hole should be?

The idea is when the tree fills the hole the washer will be a turnequet and the tree should produce new roots right above the washer. When this happens you just cut everything below the washer and the washer should just slip off the trunk.......but you have to keep your eye on it and cut when the time is right.

Whomever did these just said the hell with it and a lucky person ( @cheap_walmart_art ) came along, took them home, and will do the right thing.......I hope.

 

[MrWunderful]

Here’s a thread where I discuss the technique.

Deciduous Nebari development

I wanted to start a thread to document and discuss developing deciduous nebari through ground layering, tourniquet methods, Ebihara techniques and ground growing. Some backstory: I am a firm believer in not wasting time on bad nebari. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but when...

www.bonsainut.com

Those might be a bit large for a washer, sheet metal may work better. You can also slip pot them low into a larger container then just do a good old fashioned ground layer and fill the pot to the top for the new roots.

 

[MrWunderful]

This is interesting. I may make some "clay" washers and try it out. Then I could just break the clay washer when I get to the point where it needs removal. Does anyone have a suggestion on how large these "washers" should be and how large the hole should be?

The hole should be as close to the diameter of the trunk where you want roots.

common sizes available at most hardware stores are 1/4”, 3/8”, 1/2”, 5/8”, 3/4”.

Look for a style called a “fender washer” as these have more meat to them and are less likely to roll over the washer.

 

[penumbra]

Thanks. I am familiar with fender washers. I think I am going to make some clay washers fired to stoneware. They will not cost me a cent and I can make them any size I want.

 

[Dav4]

This is a trident I started from seed and threaded through a steel washer at 1 year of age, then grew out in the ground for 3. The first 3 pics were from spring 2019 and the last was from this past summer. The washer essentially layers the trunk above the natural rootage and hopefully creates a more even spread nebari. I suspect I'd have had better success starting out in a pot and developing a 360 degree root spread before planting out, but I'm happy with the base on this one... I've got several grown completely in pots that are better then this one.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

This is a trident I started from seed and threaded through a steel washer at 1 year of age, then grew out in the ground for 3. The first 3 pics were from spring 2019 and the last was from this past summer. The washer essentially layers the trunk above the natural rootage and hopefully creates a more even spread nebari. I suspect I'd have had better success starting out in a pot and developing a 360 degree root spread before planting out, but I'm happy with the base on this one... I've got several grown completely in pots that are better then this one.
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So you just let it grow over the washer and keep going?

 

[Dav4]

So you just let it grow over the washer and keep going?

The washer got cut away when I dug the tree and gave it it's first substantial root work

 

[Shibui]

What to use will depend on the result you want. I find washers a little small to give good spreading nebari as the new roots grow over and down again. I prefer to use sheet metal around 3 inches across which forces the new roots to grow further out making a wider nebari.
I have also tried many other materials to do this. Most alternatives have simple been crushed by the developing roots. It is hard to imagine the pressure that slowly growing roots exert though if you think how tree roots can break up concrete pavement and house foundations you will begin to have some idea. I think the pie pan mentioned above will have little hope of holding determined trident roots but I will be interested to see the results. Fired clay collars may be OK, again let us see the results as they emerge.

I find it is better to start these trees in the nursery where they get regular water while the new roots emerge and get to the edges of the barrier. i then plant out in the ground after I have good root growth. Many of the trees I initially planted direct in the grow beds died off in mid summer. I realized then that the main deeper roots were being constricted around hottest and driest part of mid- summer and the new roots had not yet made it to the moist soil below and were drying out in the heat so the trees did not survive the summer. Daily watering would help but easier and safer to keep them in nursery pots for a year or 2 at the start.

Beware of planting tor trees and washers too deep. Tridents in particular are really good at growing new roots from the trunk just under soil surface. If you plant deep you will end up with 2 new root systems - 1 at the washer and another at soil level. I just barely cover the metal with 1/2 - 3/4 inch of soil for best results.

 

[small trees]

Here are two of my best that were grown through metal or wood tile. Both are three-five years old.

 

[JBP_85]

These look great! Thanks for sharing. Definitely giving this a try.

 

[leatherback]

Good info here. I have a buch of large-diameter washers that I am planning on putting around a bunch of tridents in the field. I just do not have the space right now to pre-grow in pots.

Many of the trees I initially planted direct in the grow beds died off in mid summer.

I was worried about this, and had decided to plant them plenty deep. And then you went and said..

If you plant deep you will end up with 2 new root systems

Rats! Rethinking! Probably will end up with thin layer of compost, and letting weeds run wild to reduce the drying out.

 

[Shibui]

Rats! Rethinking! Probably will end up with thin layer of compost, and letting weeds run wild to reduce the drying out.

More bad news. Weeds can be real moisture robbers in the soil. The ground is far drier where there are weeds, especially shallow rooted grasses. Dead organic matter - mulch - is the best for conserving soil moisture but I have found the best is to keep them in pots and well watered for that critical period when old roots are being constricted but new ones are just forming.