Tridents over Seiryu rock

SeanS

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Is it typical with tridents not to get buds lower on the trunk?
@cwilhelm here’s one of my bigger ROR tridents, you’ll notice I have a stove pipe trunk that’s only purpose is to grow the roots around the rock. I plan to graft the actual trunk line and first branch right above the roots on the first 2cm of that trunk. There are no nodes that low

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Pitoon

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Is it typical with tridents not to get buds lower on the trunk?
You have to plan accordingly based on what your final project will be or look like. In my case I'm not looking for a "tree type" like @Shibui mentioned, I'm training for the "non tree type" as @SeanS mentioned which is lower and hugs the rock more. My goal is to keep them small, but in proportion to the rock and the pot.

With that in mind starting the project with seedlings or cuttings can make a difference for back budding. But you can always get a branch in a desired location by thread grafting. The tridents I started this project with were all cuttings. So in theory I should be able to get back budding all the way down to the base of the trees. Note the picture below with the bud that broke fairly low on the trunk. Once this extends I will train this as the new trunk line unless it doesn't get destroyed by the squirrels that are tormenting me at the moment.

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cwilhelm

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Thanks all, the information above was very helpful. It makes sense that a lower trunk that started originally as root tissue on the seedling would not be able to produce buds later, but I hadn't considered the possibility that the above-ground portions would lose the ability over time as well. Is that merely to do with maturation of the tissue?

On thread grafting, which is new to me having read this thread, how practical is it to root cuttings from the same tree to use as the scions?
 

SeanS

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Thanks all, the information above was very helpful. It makes sense that a lower trunk that started originally as root tissue on the seedling would not be able to produce buds later, but I hadn't considered the possibility that the above-ground portions would lose the ability over time as well. Is that merely to do with maturation of the tissue?

On thread grafting, which is new to me having read this thread, how practical is it to root cuttings from the same tree to use as the scions?
It isn’t just the trunk losing the ability to create buds, there simply aren’t any buds/nodes in the first few centimetres. Maples can only produce buds from nodes. When a seedling germinates and grows the tiny little trunk rises up out of the seed for a bit before the first set of leaves appear. Where these first leaves appear is at the first node. No buds/leaves will ever be able to form on the section of trunk between where the seed was (where the roots start) and where the first set of leaves appeared

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You can definitely root cuttings from the same plant for thread grafts. When you perform the graft you’d then either plant the cutting in the same pot/soil/ground as the main plant, or you’d have the cutting growing in a separate pot alongside the main tree.

@Pitoon please let us know if your thread is getting too detailed and cluttered with these discussions. I guess they’re still ROR based, but it’s your project thread 👍🏻
 

Pitoon

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@Pitoon please let us know if your thread is getting too detailed and cluttered with these discussions. I guess they’re still ROR based, but it’s your project thread 👍🏻
@SeanS thanks for being considerate of my project thread. I suppose if discussions continues this will no longer be my project thread.....just a thread of different discussions.

@cwilhelm If you could start a specific thread for your questions I would appreciate it. We can then direct the conversation there. In this thread I'm documenting my RoR from start to finish, thanks.
 

cwilhelm

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My apologies, I’ve been a bit of a poor guest in your project thread. I’ll make a separate thread if I have questions for the group.
I like this particular tree, the way the main large root appears to be cascading down the rock. It’ll be interesting to see how the fibrous root mass at lower left develops to fill out that layer.
 

Pitoon

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Was checking on the Trident's earlier today. There's just one that needed a root repositioned, that one got wrapped back up to set the root in place.

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Maiden69

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@Pitoon any updates? I just ordered some seiryu and dragon ohko rocks today and I'm on the process of making some air layers out of my trident that I plan on using for RoR plantings. Are your stones dark/blue when they get wet? Those are the only seiryu I found on Amazon looking up today. The ohko are the traditional aquarium beige color stones, Hopefully I can get some decent ones, at least Amazon has free returns on both in case they are not good enough for what I want.

 

Pitoon

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@Pitoon any updates? I just ordered some seiryu and dragon ohko rocks today and I'm on the process of making some air layers out of my trident that I plan on using for RoR plantings. Are your stones dark/blue when they get wet? Those are the only seiryu I found on Amazon looking up today. The ohko are the traditional aquarium beige color stones, Hopefully I can get some decent ones, at least Amazon has free returns on both in case they are not good enough for what I want.

I'll post some pics to show what they look like now, I'm debating to chop or thread graft. The rocks are a dark grayish blue. I got a bag from PetCo in the aquarium section. About half the rocks in the bag were useless for RoR, but I'm doing mame size.
 

Maiden69

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I'll post some pics to show what they look like now, I'm debating to chop or thread graft. The rocks are a dark grayish blue. I got a bag from PetCo in the aquarium section. About half the rocks in the bag were useless for RoR, but I'm doing mame size.
Awesome, thanks... I think they are the same type I bought. Here is a pic of the add for the seiryu I bought, granted the one I will receive will not be the same. Mame with tridents is no joke! I only have experience with one trident (I also have 15 seedlings growing that I bought from Matt O this winter) and that sucker grew stupid fast the first year I had it, but it was growing on a root pouch. I think on a small pot like yours will be much easier to contain the growth.

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Pitoon

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Awesome, thanks... I think they are the same type I bought. Here is a pic of the add for the seiryu I bought, granted the one I will receive will not be the same. Mame with tridents is no joke! I only have experience with one trident (I also have 15 seedlings growing that I bought from Matt O this winter) and that sucker grew stupid fast the first year I had it, but it was growing on a root pouch. I think on a small pot like yours will be much easier to contain the growth.

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The color of my rocks are not as intense as the color in your picture.
 
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