Trimming a young Pine?

[GermanBonsaiDude]

Hey Guys, i got a question about cutting back young Pines..

I am planing to grow a pine bonsai from seed and want it to have multiple trunks.
My idea was cutting it back by like Half or 2/3 in the autum, so that it would cast out new candles close to the ground the following spring.
The question is could that work or will i just kill the Plant in the process?
Would be great if you all would share your opinion with me or even better if somebody has experimented with that radical kind of trimming before.

 

[leatherback]

You can cut pines only so far as there are needles. Just chopping to the ground will kill it.

 

[GermanBonsaiDude]

You can cut pines only so far as there are needles. Just chopping to the ground will kill it.

Thank you, hadnt thought id get a answer that Quick Thank you for that Information. I will definetly give it a try then

 

[bwaynef]

Its important to get your tree (even seedling) really healthy and growing vigorously. I'd warrant that leaving more needles on the trunk and a leader that's running away, will cause buds to pop from where you've left needles after a couple of years. Given enough light and fertilizer, some of these will be useful in getting additional trunks. Pruning to get backbudding on YOUNG pines isn't always necessary.

 

[leatherback]

I think I meant to say it is not a great idea..
Make sure you read up on proper timing. Pine are not like deciduous that they make buds at any time of the year.
I am very skilled with pine. I manage to kill them very well.

 

[bwaynef]

A few young pines budding (low) without having been pruned.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

My idea was cutting it back by like Half or 2/3 in the autum, so that it would cast out new candles close to the ground the following spring.

Depending on the pine type, I wouldn't do it in the autumn.
I've chopped pines hard (originally 40cm, now 8cm) after the first half of summer, and a couple times in the spring. But I always cut them back to existing buds.
If you cut after the first half of summer, it has time and energy (and needles!) to produce new buds before fall and winter occur. In autumn, the old needles drop off and stop functioning.

I agree with leatherback that this isn't always a good idea.
It's a bad idea to try and create new buds this way, but if you want to try it, use a checklist:
1. Is the pine healthy and vigorous? If no, then don't do it.
2. Are there existing buds? If no, consider not doing it, because of 3.
3. If yes, why not grow those buds out and cut back later when these young buds are stronger?
4. If there were no buds, are you willing to sacrifice this tree to the bonsai gods if things go wrong? If yes, then make go to 5.
5. Is the wood where you want to have buds, older than 5 years? If yes, then don't make the cut. If it's young material, then you can make the cut IF 6 is OK.
6. Have there been needles on the part you want to keep? If it was a bare-neck of a candle, then don't expect buds to grow there. If there have been needles in the past, then maybe some buds will form.

Most pine seedlings bud pretty well on low positions if you just remove the apical tip. This can still happen after 2-4 years in JRP and Sylvestris. I'm still experimenting with ponderosa, halepensis and jack pine.

 

[GermanBonsaiDude]

Wow im really impressed with all the quick and expierienced response you are amazing.I learned a Lot, thank you all

I acctually meant cutting a one or two year old seedling. But at this age the Plant isnt really woody i think. I am just very curious if it would Bud back from the "softwood" so that a multitrunk can be developed really early.

By the way, i just started stratifying a few of my Pinus Bungeana(Lacebark Pine) seeds and originally wanted to try it out with them.. But after reading all your opinions i think collecting some pine seedlings from the forest is better for that "experiment". Because i really dont wanna kill a lacebark pine accidently..^^

 

[sorce]

What kinda multiple trunks are you talking about?

Welcome to Crazy!

You can't really have more than 2 or 3 coming from one node without it getting weird.

I'd consider just growing a bunch real close to each other.

Sorce

 

[GermanBonsaiDude]

What kinda multiple trunks are you talking about?

Welcome to Crazy!

You can't really have more than 2 or 3 coming from one node without it getting weird.

I'd consider just growing a bunch real close to each other.

Sorce

Sorry if i am confusing you, i am pretty new and inexpierienced.. :/

I would like to acchieve something like this(just smaller of course).
In best case 3 trunks that split out a few inches above the ground..

 

[cmeg1]

Ok I have too
Fulvic acid/kelp powders in a 5:2 ratio
Sprayed weekly ...no more or will burn.
Make a seedling cutting if possible......I have a cutting currently with 13 leaders off the roots!

cytokonin in kelp initiates budbreak genetic safety response simulating branch break survival mechanism( without actually loosing your glorious leader growth).
Fulvic acid gets it in there in 4 hrs or less I hear.
Also a surfectant like yucca powder will spread the water better on a waxy leaf( use a atomizing hair dresser spray bottle) for super fine mist.

Gettin’ into this Pine things

 

[GermanBonsaiDude]

Ok I have too
Fulvic acid/kelp powders in a 5:2 ratio
Sprayed weekly ...no more or will burn.
Make a seedling cutting if possible......I have a cutting currently with 13 leaders off the roots!

cytokonin in kelp initiates budbreak genetic safety response simulating branch break survival mechanism( without actually loosing your glorious leader growth).
Fulvic acid gets it in there in 4 hrs or less I hear.
Also a surfectant like yucca powder will spread the water better on a waxy leaf( use a atomizing hair dresser spray bottle) for super fine mist.

Gettin’ into this Pine things

Damn that Pine is impressive, man.
I must say i never would have thought of such a scientifical approach like that. You are truly a Legend
But can i use that Method straight away or must the tree have a certain age or something to survive that treatment ?

 

[cmeg1]

Damn that Pine is impressive, man.
I must say i never would have thought of such a scientifical approach like that. You are truly a Legend
But can i use that Method straight away or must the tree have a certain age or something to survive that treatment ?

I treat seedlings at pre-cutting stage with embryonic leaves....no more than once a week or will burn......pre cut seedlings of pine can do every 3 days but only during pre cut stage...even then will see slight yellowing,but they will throw more roots

 

[sorce]

You are truly a Legend

I'd say his approach is perfect specifically for what you are trying to achieve, tight low buds.

I ask about what type because the "traditionally accepted" multitrunk bonsai has the flare start right about at the top of the handle on that picture.
That situation can easily create a "waist", or an hourglass like figure.
It's possible to create a good multitrunk joint from one node, but where your chances of a nice aesthetic outcome like that is say, 1 of 10. Where utilizing buds/branches from different nodes, will be easier, say 5 of 10, but you move further from "traditionally accepted". But blah that tired shit anyway.

I most appreciate a pine that looks like a pine, not a spruce!

It will remain important to utilize different sized trunks, thinner ones shorter, thicker ones taller. With the lowest branch eminating from the shortest tree, with nice diminishing proportions on up the tree. This becomes harder with more trunks, and near impossible of you put off "making" it, or at least thinking about it in the beginning.

Sorce

 

[GermanBonsaiDude]

I treat seedlings at pre-cutting stage with embryonic leaves....no more than once a week or will burn......pre cut seedlings of pine can do every 3 days but only during pre cut stage...even then will see slight yellowing,but they will throw more roots

I have taken notes and will definetly try out everything you said. You seem pretty wise, thanks a Lot.
Actually i always was told that taking cuttings from pines or piceas would not work. Do you treat the cuttings in a special way?Or is it just working to make cuttings of young plants?

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Sorry if i am confusing you, i am pretty new and inexpierienced.. :/
View attachment 340093
I would like to acchieve something like this(just smaller of course).
In best case 3 trunks that split out a few inches above the ground..

This tree is niwaki not bonsai. Multi-trunk especially for pine falls more in the advanced skill group. Try keeping it alive first, that's halfway to winning the battle. In Germany, the winters are too cold so I wouldn't do major autumn work.

 

[leatherback]

Actually i always was told that taking cuttings from pines or piceas would not work. Do you treat the cuttings in a special way?Or is it just working to make cuttings of young plants?

Pines can be grown from cuttings, but with low succesrate.

What was meant here is taking seedlings of a few weeks old, and cutting the stem of those. This is becoming fairly common practice, and 95% survival rates are realistic for many.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Small research produces following information: "It is grown as ornamental tree in far eastern oriental classical gardens where it symbolizes longevity. It can also be seen in botanic gardens and often grows with multiple stems. Its bark is especially admired just after rains because of the emphasised contrasting colours of its peeling plates." Should make easier produce multi trunk.
Also mentioned was stems tendency to brittleness so be careful wiring in this case.
Interesting tree to work with.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

This is my multi trunk approach.
Seedlings bound with raffia, apical tips removed during the first year in the juvenile foliage stage.
Now they have buds all over the place.

 

[cmeg1]

I have taken notes and will definetly try out everything you said. You seem pretty wise, thanks a Lot.
Actually i always was told that taking cuttings from pines or piceas would not work. Do you treat the cuttings in a special way?Or is it just working to make cuttings of young plants?

Post #535 of this thread in the link I have provided

Extended season starting trees indoors

why you are not growing trees hydroponically? I mean, what do you need with media? Why do you want to use media? Yea...media is DTW hydro(drain to waste). No that’s cool.I mean Pot growers are growers too in my vision.Black market sucks....Growing marijuana would have to be legal and pay...

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