Tropical to Sub-Tropical

Anthony

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Tropical ---------- no temperature lower than 55 degrees F

Sub-Tropical ------------ low around 40 deg.F

So zone 11a would be Sub - Tropical [ 40 to 45 deg.F ] ?

So maybe the Florida Keys might be in the Sub Tropical range ?

http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/#

Perhaps parts of Puerto Rico in the mountains ?

http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/#

China -

https://www.richters.com/show.cgi?page=Zones/China.html

There is a say a 50 mile long tip that is zone 11, but no tropical area.

Now why am I writing this -------------- ?

To try and get folks to understand that the Mallsai, are from a Sub-Tropical
zone and they have to factor in a rest period.

Happens naturally for us, Christmas for mid February. Seems to be shorter daylight.
Perhaps this [ and maybe soil mix ] is why so many plants from China die indoors.

We are not even sure just how tropical some of those Ficus plants are.
Apart from our local Ficus, all the other Ficus types are imported and were never
used for Bonsai, just left to grow, never pruned.

Which is why we dropped all, but Ficus benja.... from bonsai attempts.

Perhaps like the maple which can live for a few years without rest, and then dies,
the same is happening to the Mallsai stuff ?

We have had Murray paniculata down here for at least 70 years.
Some have become small trees and expanded sideways.
Mandarins and other colder weather citrus, but on our side the oranges stay greenish
yellow when ripe.

Our high max's out around 93 for half an hour to 15 minutes for April/May and then
with the rains or winter we are back to the 80's.
Lowest low around 68 t 64 deg.F often for 12 hours for a few days during winter.
70 is more our average, going up to 75 at night.
With heavy rain, clouds can go to low 80's at night.

According to the Geographical information, much energy is expended on evaporation
of water and we have almost a continuous breeze in the hill zones.
Amazon high - 86 deg.F but humid.
Local flat land is more humid and feels hotter.

So when we grow something we check the weather conditions as closely as we can.

Tropicals also rest.

Now how do you adjust for growing indoors to allow a plant to sleep?
Good Day
Anthony

** Good News,
We now have over 15 Chinese celtis seedlings and more Celtis africana seeds germinating.
The Chinese celtis may not need a fridge.
Let you know.
 

AALen

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As someone who keeps some tropical and subtropical species* indoor all year round, I can tell you they do not need "rest." What they really need (and why they often die indoors) is sufficient light.
 

amcoffeegirl

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I do know that my ficus do rest in the winter.
I have been indoor growing for a few years now.
They stop putting out leaves in nov-march and start to really grow heavy in may. They may put out a few leaves still but not many. My plants will sometimes defoliate themselves- which always scares me. I have learned that this is part of the cycle but it still worries me sometimes. They do bounce back quickly though. I have learned the hard way not to work on them in the winter months.
Thanks
 

Redwood Ryan

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As someone who keeps some tropical and subtropical species* indoor all year round, I can tell you they do not need "rest." What they really need (and why they often die indoors) is sufficient light.


I'm gonna have to somewhat disagree with this. Even tropicals, Ficus included, need some sort of slow growth period. They can't be expected to grow year round and do just fine. They need some sort of break, and that's something I've learned over the years. Give them some time where the temperatures are a little cooler and don't make them push growth out non-stop.
 

petegreg

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I see it same, they need and they do rest. My tropicals are kept on indoor window sills. Shorter days and temperatures right above 20℃ (instead of 30s in summer) slow them down. Some of them to be precise, can't be generalized.
 

AALen

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I've been keeping a wide variety of bonsai indoors for nearly a decade now. This includes Ficus salicifolia, F. retusa, Neea buxifolia, Premna sp., Gmelina philippensis, Sageretia theezans, Duranta erecta, Portulacaria afra, et al. None ever have a defined period of rest. None ever shed leaves en masse (if your indoor trop/subtrop is shedding leaves, there is something wrong that needs to be addressed). FWIW, I maintain my indoor temperatures between 65 (winter) to 80 (summer).

All these plants will go enter a state of facultative dormancy. In other words, if they need to rest, they'll rest. But you needn't set any special conditions for them to rest. They can and do grow year round, though rates vary. Obviously they grow faster during the warmer seasons for a whole host of physiological reasons, but they do not require dormancy (or the conditions required for dormancy) like temperate plants do.
 
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petegreg

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Which is why we dropped all, but Ficus benja.... from bonsai attempts.
This is a pity, Anthony. Retusa and salicaria are probably best bonsai candidates, maybe not for bonsai farming if the climate doesn't allow, but at least few pieces for playing, even in a living room for winters.
 

Redwood Ryan

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FWIW, I maintain my indoor temperatures between 65 (winter) to 80 (summer).

Well there you go, this is exactly what I was saying. Because you keep it cooler during the winter you are giving your trees a period of rest, whether you believe it or not. If you were keeping it at 80 year round then there would be no "rest" for the trees.

P.S. it's salicaria, nerifolia is outdated ;)
 

AALen

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Well there you go, this is exactly what I was saying. Because you keep it cooler during the winter you are giving your trees a period of rest, whether you believe it or not. If you were keeping it at 80 year round then there would be no "rest" for the trees.

P.S. it's salicaria, nerifolia is outdated ;)

Yeah, I realized I used the outdated nomenclature after I posted it and have changed it :)

In the high 60s and low 70s during winter, these trees are still actively growing albeit at a slower pace. Judging by the rate of water intake, the rate is about 33% slower during winter than summer, which is nothing like my outdoor temperate trees whose rates drop to near zero during winter. For me, that's not rest. But we might be arguing semantics ;)
 

Anthony

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Hmm, at 68 to 66 deg.F, nothing grows on our side.
No extensions, no new leaves..
By the way without bopping you on the head -AALen, been growing for
almost 39-40 years [ brother-in-law K ] .

With us, too much rain, no growth and dry season, no growth, and this is our local forests.
A time for flowers. and fruit to ripen with the rain

Peter - don't fuss remember we also have a willow leaf type local - Ficus p. works well.
My mistake for leaving it out.Apologies.

Hmm, if you look at South China, very south, you see ficus trees outdoors --------- so are these Ficus even tropical ?
And is this the benji...... [ spelling ? ]
So with the dieback we experience is it because they need a rest and to be pruned only in summer ?
Ah something else to test ...........
Thanks for responding, to All.
Good Day
Anthony

* There is I read a situation where the zones can shift for so many years and so many miles, and then shift
back.
 

amcoffeegirl

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None ever shed leaves en masse (if your indoor trop/subtrop is shedding leaves, there is something wrong that needs to be addressed).
Every year my trees shed either in the spring once new growth season begins. They shed all or most of their old leaves or in the fall once it starts to turn colder. Mine usually do this in the spring but if they did not shed in the spring they will do it in the fall. Im pretty consistent with checking watering needs but if I neglect them a bit and they haven't shed they will do it at that time. They behave this way for me. It's not bad because at least once a year I get all new leaves.
 

AALen

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I guess ficus behave differently for me (either indoors or outdoors). The only leaves that consistently fall off in time are the old leaves at the nodes where a new branch sprouts from. Most other leaves are pretty much long-lasting even through winter (down to 30s for my outdoor ficus).

I don't suffer much leaf drop for my indoor plants. They pretty much grow year round at different rates depending on the temperature and the sun's seasonal declination.
 

Jeremy

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My ficus slow down outdoors, but do not rest or come to a stop. It is a time where old leaves fall but branches are still extending. What's this die back your talking of? I thought Benjis were the only fig people struggled with. Perhaps it is a case of vigour, if left to extend then cut back you may have different results.
Or give Ficus Rubiginosa a try
 

amcoffeegirl

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I'm in zone 5b so winters are harsh here. I might be overly dramatizing what actually happens. I baby them quite a bit. :rolleyes:
It is not dieback for me just a severe slow down of growth.
 

Jeremy

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Willow leaf figs are good at dropping leaves in winter. I also have a 'semi deciduous' variety which spends 2 weeks shedding before exploding in growth early spring. But most microcarpa can keep leaves for 3 years in good conditions. Zone 5 I would expect excess leaf drop even inside.
 

Starfox

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Well we are sub tropical here and many Ficus sp grow quite naturally here, from the huge centenary Ficus on the promenade in town to the thousands of street trees peppered around the place but they thrive here in the long, hot, dry summers and the normally frost free winters.
We get most of our humidity in the cooler months at night, a real pain when using the telescope but I think that helps the ficus. No real need to bring them indoors in winter.

There are loads of other species you would recognise in the tropics too but there is clearly a lot of cross over into sub tropics.
Interestingly the most success I had last year with Eucalyptus seedlings came from the batch from the trees that grow in the more northern tropical reaches in Australia, I expected these to be the ones that failed but still have a few going strong.
Bougainvillea go strong here too but have noticed that in pots they are more likely to do their deciduous thing than those in the ground.

I was reading about F. b dieback as they seem more touchy than others and pretty sure one tip was never to cut back to where you want the final cut first as they will often dieback compartmentally.
 
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