Trying to plan my own mix

[colley614]

I've been researching my own mix and was after some input as I can't seem to find information on certain things after researching.

Initially I was planning on using Molar clay and Perlite. However, I was told I could do with using organics as I work long hours so I was looking at Peter Chan's mix of sphagnum moss peat mixed with pine bark. I've read in articles that molar clay breaks down and in others I've read it doesn't. I've read Perlite is good because it opens the mix up for oxygen, I've read its bad because it floats away. I've read that you need to screen in-organics for dust, another article said to leave them in and water well to wash it away. I can't seem to find much info on Sphagnum moss peat, I've seen Peter Chan adds it to his mix but from research I can't seem to find anything. Most forum posts ask about peat moss and then the replies are "You must mean Sphagnum moss...". The only thing I have not read bad reviews over is the pine bark.

So, I've ordered Molar clay, perlite and sphagnum moss peat. I was planning on making a 50/50 mix of peat and pine bark. then mixing 2 parts molar clay, 1 part perlite and 1 part organics. But after not being able to find any information on the peat I'm considering not adding it.

Part of me wants to just go with 2 parts molar, 1 part perlite for deciduous and 3 parts molar, 1 perlite for conifers. But then, I'm worried that I may need a mixture that I can water late evening in the summer and it last 24 hours until its next watering.

 

[Woocash]

I’d go to pets at home and buy some sanicat pink if you want moler. 30l for £12.50 ish. I mean, there are so many permutations and so many opinions that its mind boggling, but as long as the water can drain freely but the substrate can retain enough moisture for your watering regime then you’ll probably not go too far wrong. From what I’ve been able to ascertain, similar size particles but those of differing shapes are key to allowing for enough air space over time because as you water the smaller particles flow through and block drainage which may cause root rot eventually. I’d add some bark to your moler and perlite and see how it goes from there.

 

[colley614]

I’d go to pets at home and buy some sanicat pink if you want moler. 30l for £12.50 ish. I mean, there are so many permutations and so many opinions that its mind boggling, but as long as the water can drain freely but the substrate can retain enough moisture for your watering regime then you’ll probably not go too far wrong. From what I’ve been able to ascertain, similar size particles but those of differing shapes are key to allowing for enough air space over time because as you water the smaller particles flow through and block drainage which may cause root rot eventually. I’d add some bark to your moler and perlite and see how it goes from there.

That's the stuff I ordered, the sanicat stuff. I tend to agree with your opinion using those 3. Hopefully this gives me a good base to start tweaking my mixture. We seem to have had a lot of rain lately and the compost in the garden centre pots is making me nervous. So, I really want to figure out a mix soon.

 

[Shibui]

You can actually grow bonsai in almost any mix as long as you can tailor your care to the type of mix. That's why there are so many opinions and recipes. Everyone has different care and watering schedules so the same mix does not suit everyone.
Sphagnum moss peat was used extensively in the past when it was easy to get but it does tend to hold a lot of water - good if you only water once a day or every couple of days. Peat takes centuries to form and we were harvesting quicker so it is now harder to get. most growers have moved away from peat as a component.
The vast majority of rowers now use very open, free draining mix and just water more often.
Personally I use a pine bark/ sand mix. All species go in the same mix. I do need to water morning and night in out hot climate and smaller pots must sit on gravel trays over summer but It appears that I cannot overwater trees in that mix.
Stop worrying and adjust your care over summer to match the mix you choose.

 

[colley614]

You can actually grow bonsai in almost any mix as long as you can tailor your care to the type of mix. That's why there are so many opinions and recipes. Everyone has different care and watering schedules so the same mix does not suit everyone.
Sphagnum moss peat was used extensively in the past when it was easy to get but it does tend to hold a lot of water - good if you only water once a day or every couple of days. Peat takes centuries to form and we were harvesting quicker so it is now harder to get. most growers have moved away from peat as a component.
The vast majority of rowers now use very open, free draining mix and just water more often.
Personally I use a pine bark/ sand mix. All species go in the same mix. I do need to water morning and night in out hot climate and smaller pots must sit on gravel trays over summer but It appears that I cannot overwater trees in that mix.
Stop worrying and adjust your care over summer to match the mix you choose.

I like the idea of not being able to over water. Ideally, I plan to water twice a day but I don't want to leave home one morning in the hot weather, get to work only to realise I have forgotten to water my trees and have to wait 12 hours to water them.

 

[Shibui]

Lateral thinking can help:
1. quit work so you don't have to leave your bonsai.
2. smart watering systems can be turned on with a phone.
3. cultivate bonsai loving friends who can pop round and sprinkle some water when you forget.
4. keep a range of symptoms in store so you can get really sick at work and have to go home in case others catch covid 19 or whatever happens to be in the news at the time.

The reality is that most will survive a single missed watering as long as they have been well watered previously. Some may lose a few leaves but usually sprout again after you resume proper care. repeated under watering is far more likely to be fatal.

 

[colley614]

Lateral thinking can help:
1. quit work so you don't have to leave your bonsai.
2. smart watering systems can be turned on with a phone.
3. cultivate bonsai loving friends who can pop round and sprinkle some water when you forget.
4. keep a range of symptoms in store so you can get really sick at work and have to go home in case others catch covid 19 or whatever happens to be in the news at the time.

The reality is that most will survive a single missed watering as long as they have been well watered previously. Some may lose a few leaves but usually sprout again after you resume proper care. repeated under watering is far more likely to be fatal.

From watching a few videos, I'm getting the impression that they don't seem to be too regimented about % of materials, more about particle size being similar. Same for watering. They seem to have an as and when mentality. I think I'll just knock a batch up and give it a go and adjust as I learn.

 

[leatherback]

In line with the previous posters, take a look here. This is how I keep my trees. Also working away from home, in summer 11 hours before I can water at the earliest, and only last 2 summers did I have to take extra measures during 1-2 weeks of extreme heat:

Characteristics of good bonsai substrate - Growing Bonsai

When growing bonsai, there are few subjects that are more controversial than substrates. To some the concept of not using the Japanese substrates is near blasphemy. Everything that is used …

www.growingbonsai.net

 

[colley614]

In line with the previous posters, take a look here. This is how I keep my trees. Also working away from home, in summer 11 hours before I can water at the earliest, and only last 2 summers did I have to take extra measures during 1-2 weeks of extreme heat:

Characteristics of good bonsai substrate - Growing Bonsai

When growing bonsai, there are few subjects that are more controversial than substrates. To some the concept of not using the Japanese substrates is near blasphemy. Everything that is used …

www.growingbonsai.net

Interesting read. I feel like I'm on the right track now.

 

[Woocash]

That's the stuff I ordered, the sanicat stuff. I tend to agree with your opinion using those 3. Hopefully this gives me a good base to start tweaking my mixture. We seem to have had a lot of rain lately and the compost in the garden centre pots is making me nervous. So, I really want to figure out a mix soon.

Got to bear in mind that while standard compost is not useful in tiny pots for bonsai, the whole horticulture industry is based on using the stuff. It would be counter productive to grow plants in stuff which kills them. If you leave your plants in their pots until the right time to repot its really not likely to cause too much harm as long they don't sit in water and then they cant drain. Compost or compact soils just inhibit recovery of roots really.

 

[colley614]

Got to bear in mind that while standard compost is not useful in tiny pots for bonsai, the whole horticulture industry is based on using the stuff. It would be counter productive to grow plants in stuff which kills them. If you leave your plants in their pots until the right time to repot its really not likely to cause too much harm as long they don't sit in water and then they cant drain. Compost or compact soils just inhibit recovery of roots really.

It's the fact that the trees aren't draining that worries me. I've watered them and the water stands on top of the soil. I would understand if the soil was dry but it was only just dry to the touch on the top.

 

[bonsaichile]

I've been researching my own mix and was after some input as I can't seem to find information on certain things after researching.

Initially I was planning on using Molar clay and Perlite. However, I was told I could do with using organics as I work long hours so I was looking at Peter Chan's mix of sphagnum moss peat mixed with pine bark. I've read in articles that molar clay breaks down and in others I've read it doesn't. I've read Perlite is good because it opens the mix up for oxygen, I've read its bad because it floats away. I've read that you need to screen in-organics for dust, another article said to leave them in and water well to wash it away. I can't seem to find much info on Sphagnum moss peat, I've seen Peter Chan adds it to his mix but from research I can't seem to find anything. Most forum posts ask about peat moss and then the replies are "You must mean Sphagnum moss...". The only thing I have not read bad reviews over is the pine bark.

So, I've ordered Molar clay, perlite and sphagnum moss peat. I was planning on making a 50/50 mix of peat and pine bark. then mixing 2 parts molar clay, 1 part perlite and 1 part organics. But after not being able to find any information on the peat I'm considering not adding it.

Part of me wants to just go with 2 parts molar, 1 part perlite for deciduous and 3 parts molar, 1 perlite for conifers. But then, I'm worried that I may need a mixture that I can water late evening in the summer and it last 24 hours until its next watering.

water early morning instead. Watering early evening is a recipe for fungal infections

 

[Woocash]

It's the fact that the trees aren't draining that worries me. I've watered them and the water stands on top of the soil. I would understand if the soil was dry but it was only just dry to the touch on the top.

Strange. Are the drainage holes blocked? Or are the plants pot bound? If you’re too worried but don’t to do root work yet then you could always slip pot them into a larger pot without disturbing the roots. Saying that though, if you ordered stuff to repot already then a few days isn’t going to be the end of the world. You’re likely to be removing a fair chunk of the lower roots anyway so maybe poke some holes in the bottom of the rootball to aid with drainage for now? Just thinking out loud really.

 

[Palmer]

Roots require oxygen to grow, and oxygen travels 10,000 times faster through air than it does through water.

"Drainage" means that the water drains out of soil is replaced by air since nature abhors a vacuum; hence, soil contains particles, water, and air. Soil is said to be compacted when there is insufficient space for water and, especially air.

Roots are retarded and will eventually die in waterlogged soil. Containers retain more water than the earth, and shallow containers retain more water (hence less air) than deep containers. So, as the depth of the container decreases, the soil needs greater porosity in order that draining water will be replaced by air.

For general growing of bonsai I use 1/3 turface, 1/3 large "sand" and 1/3 of an organic like bark depending on the species I am growing.

If you like japanese soils, you can get some akadama and kyriuzuna 70/30.
For bare root transplant I use 1/2 turface and 1/2 large sand....but I am very good at adding nutrients to my soil: chelated iron, micronutrients and organic fertilizer plus superphosphate for following species.

I do use kanuma soil in place of turface for my azaleas. Please note your zone to check water needs.

 

[colley614]

Roots require oxygen to grow, and oxygen travels 10,000 times faster through air than it does through water.

"Drainage" means that the water drains out of soil is replaced by air since nature abhors a vacuum; hence, soil contains particles, water, and air. Soil is said to be compacted when there is insufficient space for water and, especially air.

Roots are retarded and will eventually die in waterlogged soil. Containers retain more water than the earth, and shallow containers retain more water (hence less air) than deep containers. So, as the depth of the container decreases, the soil needs greater porosity in order that draining water will be replaced by air.

For general growing of bonsai I use 1/3 turface, 1/3 large "sand" and 1/3 of an organic like bark depending on the species I am growing.

If you like japanese soils, you can get some akadama and kyriuzuna 70/30.
For bare root transplant I use 1/2 turface and 1/2 large sand....but I am very good at adding nutrients to my soil: chelated iron, micronutrients and organic fertilizer plus superphosphate for following species.

I do use kanuma soil in place of turface for my azaleas. Please note your zone to check water needs.

I'm right on the boundary of 8 and 9. I would say I'm 9 as when it snows as little as a mile from me often we get rain instead and snow rarely sticks, even when it sticks elsewhere close by.

 

[leatherback]

sand

maybe uae gravel as word. Sand for.many is stuff that you do not want in the pot

 

[rockm]

From watching a few videos, I'm getting the impression that they don't seem to be too regimented about % of materials, more about particle size being similar. Same for watering. They seem to have an as and when mentality. I think I'll just knock a batch up and give it a go and adjust as I learn.

this is a recipe for dead trees. Watching a few videos of uncertain origin online is probably the worst way to go about things. There are certainly decent guidelines on which materials and percentages are most effective IN YOUR AREA. Videos online could be from some idiot in Los Angeles or Miami (Which are USDA Zone 8 and 9). The care, if its even accurate, they give their trees and the soil they use will kill trees in your area of the U.K.

The best way to learn how to make your own soil is to talk to people who do it in your area...They have already mapped out which materials work, which don't and where to get them. You're rei-inventing the wheel...

 

[colley614]

this is a recipe for dead trees. Watching a few videos of uncertain origin online is probably the worst way to go about things. There are certainly decent guidelines on which materials and percentages are most effective IN YOUR AREA. Videos online could be from some idiot in Los Angeles or Miami (Which are USDA Zone 8 and 9). The care, if its even accurate, they give their trees and the soil they use will kill trees in your area of the U.K.

The best way to learn how to make your own soil is to talk to people who do it in your area...They have already mapped out which materials work, which don't and where to get them. You're rei-inventing the wheel...

I have been watching videos but only been focused on reputable people. I know the dangers of listening to every piece of information you across. You start out researching soils and end up thinking the earths flat if you absorb everything without question (see what I did there? Soil - Earth?) I've based my research on what I know the guys at my local club are using, molar clay. When researching substrate I've listened to their mixes, locations but also their watering and fertiliser philosophy.

I am at my local club tomorrow, I plan on speaking with those guys before making my mixture.

 

[Palmer]

maybe uae gravel as word. Sand for.many is stuff that you do not want in the pot

completely agree. Words can lead to an error.
"Sometimes you want to help, but you don't get it".
I was talking about the river sand and with the term "large" differentiate that there are several sizes. Gravel is a word that better defines a thicker sand.

 

[colley614]

I've been given advice from my club and have made my own mix. I also won a Chinese elm cutting in the raffle.