Tsuga canadensis collected

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#21
ok, maybe heavy branchlet was a bit of an exaggeration, but I removed it because it was too heavy. The remaining branch would be a good candidate for a guy wire.. maybe I'll work up the guts sometime soon.
 

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#22
This was the result after a workshop in the fall. For better or for worse I picked a new leader. I am admittedly a terrible workshop student as I suck at wiring (I have a tremor from a neurological disability) and I generally am pretty particular about what changes I want to make to my tree. First thing every teacher says about this tree is to remove the crossing branch (still there) and then to remove the long straight section at the top (I buckled and this section is now gone). This does change the future front to the pictured angle if I want to put the scar in back, although as you can see it would be pretty easy to cover any scars with branches if I want to change it later. I also removed the rest of the branch indicated in the previous post. The teacher pointed out that it was contributing to the reverse taper and not really contributing anything to the design.
My next steps are to reduce the crossing branch to the bare minimum(but still keep), and to put fresh soil underneath the current rootball so that I can let the top layer of soil wash away to hopefully slowly reveal that wagon wheel of roots that I remember from collection time.
Hopefully I'll have sorted out my housing predicament(long story) before the growing season starts or I'll have to let my sister foster this for me.

IMG_1814.JPG
 
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#23
I would contact amkhalid (a nut member) as to the care and training of these hemlocks.
 
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#24
There are just a couple crispy bits way on the outside. I expect a full head of hair by summer.. if I can hide the darn scissors.
IMG_0317.JPG
 
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#25
I want to let this one get shaggy this year and then trim back hard next year with branch reduction and balancing. These will keep pushing growth into summer and it will be hard not to remove some congestion.
 

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#26
image.jpeg I couldn't help but chase back some of the upper branches, because they wouldn't help the taper any and I don't want them to get out of balance. There is a sacrifice section at the very top. I am keeping the bottom branches long even though there is an interior section available. When ever you clip a large section, the remaining branch springs upwards due to the density of the growth. I'll have to get my engineer brother in law to set up some nice wires and guide (guy?) wires although I could probably improvise with some zip ties.

Question: what dimension pot would you recommend to this guy given the current pot is 18" wide oval, 5" deep. A rounder deeper lotus?
 

0soyoung

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#27
I would keep it in the pot it is in now for a few more years (it may need a repotting); that is, until you've pretty much developed the tree structurally. Its growth rate will likely slow considerably in a 'proper pot'. I would guess it would be 9-12" wide and 2-2.5" deep (a crude rule of thumb is the pot depth should be about the same as the trunk thickness, give or take). But I think you need to 'get it there' in terms of development to 'see' the appropriate pot to compliment it.
 
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#28
You are definitely right that structure is the next focus in development, and it has only been in that pot for two years, which provides plenty of room for growth, so I will leave it there until I get a handle on the structure.
I shouldn't be surprised that the dimensions you recommend for the final pot are much smaller than what I was thinking. Maybe I just need an intermediary training pot, after two more years, to satisfy my aesthetic urges. When I did repot I wasn't real adventurous finding out what was beneath the surface and I think there are better roots hiding below. It makes me wish I was more thorough with my photos and documentation during collection and repotting.
 
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#29
My Brazilian brother in law helped me put this guy into "traction" as he calls it. He did 95% of the work and let me set the final position while he tightened up the guy wires. It looks 10 times better now but really helps me see where the future branches are going to be. There is still a lot of sacrifice growth on top and on the lowest branches, but I think in the next couple years this will really take shape.
 

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#30
This is an older picture that should help me lay off the pruning next year, as well as another picture that best demonstrates that challenges with the future apex. Hemlock covers wounds very quickly but I'll admit I'm tempted to hollow the transition out a bit. I used a straight saw cut to induce taper when I should have, "when in doubt, leave a stump," figured it out later.
 

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#31
This spring I plan on wrapping and pulling the sacrifice down in order to put the apex in place. I’d like to also undo the guy wires and put several inches of fresh soil in the bottom of the pot so that I can slowly uncover the top to see what roots are hiding under there. I really wish I had taken pictures during collection as I remember a wagon wheel of roots down there, but there may have been two hubs and i’m not sure that I want to tear through the top roots to get to the bottom ones. That’s why I was thinking a slow erosion and see what gets uncovered. I’m not crazy about the current neberi though so I think it is worth exploring my options.
Then redo the guy wires and let it grow. Depending on how vigorous it is I may take off much of the new growth to try and boost the ramification around mid spring.
 

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#32
This spring I plan on wrapping and pulling the sacrifice down in order to put the apex in place. I’d like to also undo the guy wires and put several inches of fresh soil in the bottom of the pot so that I can slowly uncover the top to see what roots are hiding under there. I really wish I had taken pictures during collection as I remember a wagon wheel of roots down there, but there may have been two hubs and i’m not sure that I want to tear through the top roots to get to the bottom ones. That’s why I was thinking a slow erosion and see what gets uncovered. I’m not crazy about the current neberi though so I think it is worth exploring my options.
Then redo the guy wires and let it grow. Depending on how vigorous it is I may take off much of the new growth to try and boost the ramification around mid spring.
There are a few idiosynchrocies with Hemlock. Repotting is one. It is important to take special care of the finer roots that develop near the surface. Working your way down slowly is important. On collected trees i usually wait till the second year before excavating. Then i do so about 1/2 inch every three or four months during the growing season.
Also with wiring, the branches take a long time to set. Using wire on the branch works better than guy wires. This is due to the fact that shaping the branch with wire creates stress cracks that when they heal set the branches position. It is important to start wiring hemlock branches early for this reason. Here is an example of one collected in 2012, the before and current.
 

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#34
I see this stuff all over the place in the mountains when hiking.. i’ve Only seen the smallest trace of spittle on mine one time. I used some rose systemic spray and no signs since. I am noticing a bit of browning only at the tips of the extremities over the winter. I’m not sure if this was late season spider-mite or if I was over enthusiastic with my application of agriform fertilizer tablets. Hopefully we’ll see some prolific growth this spring to hide any traces.
 
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#35
There are a few idiosynchrocies with Hemlock. Repotting is one. It is important to take special care of the finer roots that develop near the surface. Working your way down slowly is important. On collected trees i usually wait till the second year before excavating. Then i do so about 1/2 inch every three or four months during the growing season.
Also with wiring, the branches take a long time to set. Using wire on the branch works better than guy wires. This is due to the fact that shaping the branch with wire creates stress cracks that when they heal set the branches position. It is important to start wiring hemlock branches early for this reason. Here is an example of one collected in 2012, the before and current.
Thanks for the advice; there isn’t a lot of “institutional” knowledge with the species. It has been three years since the last repot, and I believe 5 years since I collected it, so based on your guidelines, I am well with in the time frame to start exposing the surface roots. I think that, artistically, the rootage is really weak on this tree at this point, so I don't have a lot to lose by digging down a bit. I think post #24 has the best view of the surface roots. Here is a question though, do you know if they have any tendency to ground-layer, or might they with the aid of some rooting hormone?

I might save this the next stage for a workshop or two and try to take cuttings / plant seeds so that I can gather more experience with the species without risking the closest tree that I have to a "yamadori." I will say that I am tempted to really dig down there to see if I can find the wagon wheel that I remember lopping of when I originally collected the tree (kicking self for not taking pictures). During it's first (and only) repot I was pretty cautious about digging around in there, but it has only responded to my insults with vigor at this point, so it is tempting to get a little more insulting. I will likely go slow as you recommend, but I am also tempted to remove some of the redundant or awkward roots from the top as I move the tree higher out of the pot. I'll need to take another picture focused on the base.. the decent roots in front in post #24 might be a stick sitting on top.

That is really fantastic movement and ramification on that twin trunk of yours. Was it growing in a sunny environment where it was collected? What potting mix do you use? Fertilizer and pruning regimen? Fantastic tree. Looking at it again, is it canadensis or another species?
 
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#36
Thanks for the advice; there isn’t a lot of “institutional” knowledge with the species. It has been three years since the last repot, and I believe 5 years since I collected it, so based on your guidelines, I am well with in the time frame to start exposing the surface roots. I think that, artistically, the rootage is really weak on this tree at this point, so I don't have a lot to lose by digging down a bit. I think post #24 has the best view of the surface roots. Here is a question though, do you know if they have any tendency to ground-layer, or might they with the aid of some rooting hormone?

I might save this the next stage for a workshop or two and try to take cuttings / plant seeds so that I can gather more experience with the species without risking the closest tree that I have to a "yamadori." I will say that I am tempted to really dig down there to see if I can find the wagon wheel that I remember lopping of when I originally collected the tree (kicking self for not taking pictures). During it's first (and only) repot I was pretty cautious about digging around in there, but it has only responded to my insults with vigor at this point, so it is tempting to get a little more insulting. I will likely go slow as you recommend, but I am also tempted to remove some of the redundant or awkward roots from the top as I move the tree higher out of the pot. I'll need to take another picture focused on the base.. the decent roots in front in post #24 might be a stick sitting on top.
Over time i removed a lot of larger awkward roots to expose the base. Hemlock tend to have a wonderful flare at the base.
Michael Hagedorn in Portland has done quite a bit with Hemlock. His website Crataegus Bonsai has some profile posts that contain excellent insights. I have trained with Michael at various times and trust his direction.
Extra Note: generally nebari is not a strong point for Hemlock, more the base, trunk,bark and elegant foliage.
 
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#37
I believe @Riversedgebonsai us working with mountain hemlock, Tsuga mertensis, where as David, @MrFancyPlants is working with eastern hemlock Tsuga canadaensis. They are somewhat different species. For whatever reason, mountain hemlock seems to have a poor survival rate, east of the Pacific Northwest or at elevations below 4000 feet. Mountain hemlock do develop a nice rough bark fairly young, less than 25 years.

Eastern hemlock grows well in lower elevations, and just about anywhere with winter cold enough to have snow, east of the Mississippi. It's bark tends to be smooth for the first 50 years.

The hemlock adelgid, can be controlled by any pesticide that works well for mealy bugs. Mealy bugs are related to, or are members of the Adelgid family of insects. It is a problem in "the wild" because you can not do wide scale spraying of whole forests, it is not practical for a number of reasons.
 
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#38
Eastern hemlock grows well in lower elevations, and just about anywhere with winter cold enough to have snow, east of the Mississippi. It's bark tends to be smooth for the first 50 years.
I would tend to disagree with that as it really depends on where they're growing....deep wooded shade...maybe. In my yard (more sun) 10-12 years. In a pot - mine is 6-8 and starting to fissure nicely.
 
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#39
I believe @Riversedgebonsai us working with mountain hemlock, Tsuga mertensis, where as David, @MrFancyPlants is working with eastern hemlock Tsuga canadaensis. They are somewhat different species. For whatever reason, mountain hemlock seems to have a poor survival rate, east of the Pacific Northwest or at elevations below 4000 feet. Mountain hemlock do develop a nice rough bark fairly young, less than 25 years.

Eastern hemlock grows well in lower elevations, and just about anywhere with winter cold enough to have snow, east of the Mississippi. It's bark tends to be smooth for the first 50 years.

The hemlock adelgid, can be controlled by any pesticide that works well for mealy bugs. Mealy bugs are related to, or are members of the Adelgid family of insects. It is a problem in "the wild" because you can not do wide scale spraying of whole forests, it is not practical for a number of reasons.
It is true that Tsuga Mertensis is usually found in the native locations above 4,000 feet. They have an excellent survival rate if handled properly and given a climate with sufficient dormancy. I have found that the key is providing partial shade not direct sun. As well the repotting method used is important. The finer roots on the surface must be protected and the tree must be adjusted with staged root work over time rather than aggressive repotting. My elevation is 600 feet, zone 7b. The collection zone is higher elevations as noted and the temperatures much colder with a longer dormancy period. They have not done well in California Zone 10. Too warm and not enough dormancy.
 
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#40
It is true that Tsuga Mertensis is usually found in the native locations above 4,000 feet. They have an excellent survival rate if handled properly and given a climate with sufficient dormancy. I have found that the key is providing partial shade not direct sun. As well the repotting method used is important. The finer roots on the surface must be protected and the tree must be adjusted with staged root work over time rather than aggressive repotting. My elevation is 600 feet, zone 7b. The collection zone is higher elevations as noted and the temperatures much colder with a longer dormancy period. They have not done well in California Zone 10. Too warm and not enough dormancy.
You just use partial shade after collection, correct? I had my eastern in partial shade for the first year (collected late spring) until it started to show signs of growth following year. Then I move it to as much full sun that I had in my yard.
 

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