Tsuga canadensis collected

River's Edge

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You just use partial shade after collection, correct? I had my eastern in partial shade for the first year (collected late spring) until it started to show signs of growth following year. Then I move it to as much full sun that I had in my yard.
I cannot speak for the Eastern Hemlock, but i would judge wether the location is right by the color of the foliage and vigor of the tree. Hemlock in the right location growing vigorously is a dark luxuriant green. Too much sun and they turn lighter with yellower foliage. They do not like to dry out .
Actually the mountain Hemlock is primarily an understory type tree, towered over by Fir and Douglas Pine. They healthiest specimens thrive in the shadows, so i keep them in Partial Sun/Shade all the time. There color and health is always better when not in direct sunlight or direct drying winds. The best location i have for them is an area that gets full morning sun, shaded in the hottest part of the afternoon and receives the light late afternoon and evening.
This is in keeping with cooler temperatures at higher elevations where they grow naturally.
 

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I cannot speak for the Eastern Hemlock, but i would judge wether the location is right by the color of the foliage and vigor of the tree. Hemlock in the right location growing vigorously is a dark luxuriant green. Too much sun and they turn lighter with yellower foliage. They do not like to dry out .
Actually the mountain Hemlock is primarily an understory type tree, towered over by Fir and Douglas Pine. They healthiest specimens thrive in the shadows, so i keep them in Partial Sun/Shade all the time. There color and health is always better when not in direct sunlight or direct drying winds. The best location i have for them is an area that gets full morning sun, shaded in the hottest part of the afternoon and receives the light late afternoon and evening.
This is in keeping with cooler temperatures at higher elevations where they grow naturally.
Correction i meant Douglas Fir and Lodgepole Pine. My bad
 
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Here are a couple updates. I was heartened to read in this thread that I had similar terminal browning last year, and everything seemed healthy the rest of the season. I haven’t been removing the agriform fertilizer tablets during the cold season, so maybe I’ll try that next year.

In the first photo you can see some not great rootage. I am going to take this to a Roy Nagatoshi workshop on the 15th, but I believe we will go ahead and put some soil on the bottom to boost up the level of the roots for a slow reveal of what lies beneath. As well as some wiring and wiring the apex in place and readjusting the guy wires. Maybe some reduction of thickening branches towards the top. I doubt any grafting this year but in one or two more, maybe.
 

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Rereading the thread, I've been talking about lifting the potted level since at least 2016. I am going to make it happen this year. In my defense I've had a two moves and a second child since the photo and comment from '16.

Anything to be done about bark that is peeling away from the trunk? This one and my JBP are prone to big flakes peeling away. I know it is a pick no-no to pick the flakes off, but they are so big that the imagery doesn't work. Is there any chance that picking it off would help the next layer start the aging process? Maybe since the rapid swelling of the trunk is slowing down that the next layer may not peel away in the same manor?
 

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Rereading the thread, I've been talking about lifting the potted level since at least 2016. I am going to make it happen this year. In my defense I've had a two moves and a second child since the photo and comment from '16.

Anything to be done about bark that is peeling away from the trunk? This one and my JBP are prone to big flakes peeling away. I know it is a pick no-no to pick the flakes off, but they are so big that the imagery doesn't work. Is there any chance that picking it off would help the next layer start the aging process? Maybe since the rapid swelling of the trunk is slowing down that the next layer may not peel away in the same manor?
I would be cautious about too much work at one time. Particularly if you do any repotting. I am wondering if you are aware of anyone successfully grafting Hemlock? If so i would be interested in the details pertinent to this species. I have done quite a bit of grafting, but i have not heard of anyone grafting Hemlock. I suppose it should be possible but I am not aware of it being done. I collect Mountain Hemlock and have quite a few but i have never considered them as candidates for grafting. I have a couple that show less promise than others perhaps it is time to experiment.
 
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I would be cautious about too much work at one time. Particularly if you do any repotting. I am wondering if you are aware of anyone successfully grafting Hemlock? If so i would be interested in the details pertinent to this species. I have done quite a bit of grafting, but i have not heard of anyone grafting Hemlock. I suppose it should be possible but I am not aware of it being done. I collect Mountain Hemlock and have quite a few but i have never considered them as candidates for grafting. I have a couple that show less promise than others perhaps it is time to experiment.
@amkhalid spoke about successful 'one-point' grafts with Tsuga canadensis (Eastern Hemlock) in this thread. My horticultural abilities haven't progressed into the realm of grafting yet, but it makes sense to me that at least the Eastern Hemlock would respond well since they are so prolific about covering and healing wounds. I can't speak for the western species, but definitely give it a shot with a candidate that would otherwise not have much of a future. I have a bunch of seeds planted for this spring, and going to attempt cuttings with any trimmings this year, so hopefully i'll have more material to experiment with than my only yamadori.
 
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I'm not to worried about doing too much work as it would really be a slip pot back into the same pot, just with some more soil added to the bottom and edges. The last time I did a full repot after three years from collection, It had solidly colonized a much larger pot. And, after collection I used a terrible mix mash of recycled bonsai soil, turface, spaghnum and a little field clay from the collection site to top it off (ick). But, I will heed the warning, in that, if it doesn't lift out cleanly, I'll reconsider doing any further work.
 
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I am wondering about using super glue to reattach the flaking bark. Should I break first before glueing it down, or just see if it bends back into place.
 

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I just snapped a couple quick photos this morning after yesterday’s workshop. Roy was drawing from wisdom when he recommended saving the root work for the next repotting and chasing back the growth and working on the design for the foliage now. I kept the apical sacrifice in place for now, although it could have come off. I figure it will speed recovery and keep the branches from pumping out too much growth in response to the cut backs. Not that internode length is an issue with these, but there is still a pretty big chop healing towards the top as well. And I wasn’t to try an air layer on the sacrifice when it is time. We’ll see how vigerously it responds this spring and I can decide whether or not to trim off the new growth like decandling for ramification. And repot in a year or two...
 

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Not as much budding from older leaves as I was hoping given the hard trimming it received this past spring, but at least there are healthy signs of strong growth.

I was re-watching bonsaimirai's growth perpetuation (Ryan Neil) and a bit stuck out to me about extending species in development, which I'll seummerize:

Development mode for elongating species:
Allow to elongate/harden and wait for backbud. Likely to see back buds in fall. Prune tip back to established buds in Fall or even the following year. More foliage = more budding.

The thing is, I think I am about ready to make the transition to refinement for this tree. I am leaning towards letting it run until Fall and waiting to see what pops up as far as back-budding and chasing the growth back the following spring, but I am also tempted to reduce to the inner active buds mid-summer to see if I can encourage budding further back during the fall push.
 

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The thing is, I think I am about ready to make the transition to refinement for this tree. I am leaning towards letting it run until Fall and waiting to see what pops up as far as backbudding and chasing thre growth back the following spring, but I am also tempted to reduce to the inner active buds mid-summer to see if I can encourage budding further back during the fall push.
I think you also want to pinch the tips on the long branches about now (actually just as distinct 'needles' are becoming apparent - but it isn't mandatory to pinch). And later, after bud set, cut all back to a bud. Pinching just works to keep the long guys from getting to be waaayyy too long, though it does stimulate some back budding alsoi(a hedge against the possibility of a long shoot that doesn't set a bud anywhere other than on its tip).
 

GGB

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I pruned mine back a little this fall and was rewarded with 2 or 3 buds on bare wood. In my experience, which is limited, budding and back budding is a little bit random. Seemingly weak areas of the tree will bud up nicely while others disappointed. Maybe I just balanced the tree better than I realized haha. I love em.
 

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Not as much budding from older leaves as I was hoping given the hard trimming it received this past spring, but at least there are healthy signs of strong growth.

I was re-watching bonsaimirai's growth perpetuation (Ryan Neil) and a bit stuck out to me about extending species in development, which I'll seummerize:

Development mode for elongating species:
Allow to elongate/harden and wait for backbud. Likely to see back buds in fall. Prune tip back to established buds in Fall or even the following year. More foliage = more budding.

The thing is, I think I am about ready to make the transition to refinement for this tree. I am leaning towards letting it run until Fall and waiting to see what pops up as far as back-budding and chasing the growth back the following spring, but I am also tempted to reduce to the inner active buds mid-summer to see if I can encourage budding further back during the fall push.
I prune Hemlock back in the fall after the backbuds have set. It is appropriate to pinch or cut the shoot in the spring if you wish to curtail the energy in that area. In the early stage of your tree i would not do so unless you feel one area is too strong or the branch is one you do not want to get larger.
 
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I prune Hemlock back in the fall after the backbuds have set. It is appropriate to pinch or cut the shoot in the spring if you wish to curtail the energy in that area. In the early stage of your tree i would not do so unless you feel one area is too strong or the branch is one you do not want to get larger.
That is consistent with what Ryan Neil is suggesting for a "extending growth" tree in development. I would think that cutting back in the fall would reduce the energy available for back-budding in the spring, but, I seem to be missing something of the concept. I would think that either a winter cutback or early spring cutback would facilitate backbudding (after the energy has been stored in the roots for the winter and before it has moved up for shoot development).

So do you think if I let it run until fall, I could still see some more back-budding? Like, no pinching or bifurcation selection until fall? I generally see continuous growth up until mid-summer and then another much smaller extension in the fall (I believe from the ends of the spring buds although I wasn't specifically looking for back buds). I did try "hedging" a smaller apex branch last fall and that didn't seem to encourage any more back budding on that section as of yet.
 

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That is consistent with what Ryan Neil is suggesting for a "extending growth" tree in development. I would think that cutting back in the fall would reduce the energy available for back-budding in the spring, but, I seem to be missing something of the concept. I would think that either a winter cutback or early spring cutback would facilitate backbudding (after the energy has been stored in the roots for the winter and before it has moved up for shoot development).

So do you think if I let it run until fall, I could still see some more back-budding? Like, no pinching or bifurcation selection until fall? I generally see continuous growth up until mid-summer and then another much smaller extension in the fall (I believe from the ends of the spring buds although I wasn't specifically looking for back buds). I did try "hedging" a smaller apex branch last fall and that didn't seem to encourage any more back budding on that section as of yet.
In the words of Michael Hagedorn who has taught me the most about Hemlocks in several of his intensives. " the primary challenge with Hemlocks is backbudding". Also sometimes, the backbudding that was triggered is not so evident until the following spring.
If you cut back always do to an existing bud or branch. Keep as much of the interior growth as possible unless it is of no use for the design,
And in repotting do not bare root larger areas. Always keep as many fine roots as possible. If you need to remove compacted soil do it in segments over time. Another key is to avoid wiring in the growing season, it is very easy to separate the cambium. And watch the wiring carefully Hemlock can cut in very quickly.
 

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I would think that cutting back in the fall would reduce the energy available for back-budding in the spring, but, I seem to be missing something of the concept.
.
AUXIN. It is all about auxin.
Newly hardened foliage produces a lot of it. Cutting new foliage away causes an abrupt drop in the auxin levels going down the branch and affects back budding (Thimann-Sloog revealed this nearly a century ago). The level of auxin production declines as the leaves age. So pruning in fall is more stimulative than in the following spring.

Energy, real energy, is produced by photosynthesis (which only occurs in the foliage). The reduction in foliar mass affected by pruning does reduce energy production. This is the only 'energy direction' that can be given to a plant: weaken the strong areas with lots of foliage by removing foliage so that all areas have about the same foliar mass = about the same energy production. I think you attribute this process to the tree 'sending energy' to the weak areas.
 

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I really, really appreciate this thread. I have located two very thick, short, very promising subjects near our new cabin that I'd like to collect for bonsai. But I don't know a lot about Eastern Hemlocks except that I like them a lot. Everything posted here is very helpful.
 
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It is tempting to prune back in late-spring or summer and hope for more backbuds in the fall, but I am going to listen to you and try to internalize that the bud setting is likely much sooner than the actual extension. i.e. perhaps my previous spring work will encourage back-budding this fall, and bifurcation selection in the fall should help with back-budding in the spring.

Here are a couple photos taken a month and a half apart after the first repot from collection in '15. So far it is the only time I have repotted. I'm not sure that I can expect the same vigor a few years out from the fresh substrate, but here is to hoping. At the time, there was too much going on to pay much attention to whether or not there was back-budding.
 

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I got some back budding on the second branch from the top (not counting the apical sacrifice), but not on the branch above or below. Maybe I'll rotate to try and change the exposure; I think this branch had the most exposure and I'd really like some back-buds on the apex.
 

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