Tsuga canadensis collected

[Japonicus]

I picked this pot mainly because it was the right size before transitioning to a final pot. A lot of cleaning up and wiring (maybe fishing weights or guides) to do, but there is no rush on that.

Hello @MrFancyPlants , I don't recall your mention of how you worked the roots Spring 2015 when you put it
in this pot. I think this was your 1st potting up after the initial terra cotta pot you used.
We're close to the same weather oftentimes, so curious if you have any pointers on how you
went about this one in particular, or anything about potting it up that you've learned over the years.
Frank may be working Western (heterophylla), ABCarve bare roots canadensis early, so I'm trying to gain as much info I can in this respect.
Thank you. Envious of your hemlock...

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Hello @MrFancyPlants , I don't recall your mention of how you worked the roots Spring 2015 when you put it
in this pot. I think this was your 1st potting up after the initial terra cotta pot you used.
We're close to the same weather oftentimes, so curious if you have any pointers on how you
went about this one in particular, or anything about potting it up that you've learned over the years.
Frank may be working Western (heterophylla), ABCarve bare roots canadensis early, so I'm trying to gain as much info I can in this respect.
Thank you. Envious of your hemlock...

Hey, thanks for the interest. I was able to dig up my post repotting dialogue from an alternate forum that doesn’t get much use these days. It was spring 2015 that I repotted. I wonder if these might respond well to fall repottings, but I haven’t pushed it since this is my only real collected material. I have a repotting coming up for this one in the next year or so (and a new Sara Rayner pot), but I want to give the latest styling time to set, and I want to attempt an air layer of my sacrifice. So I’ll be thinking about the timing for repotting again coming up. I would think early spring after the last freeze would be the safest time. I also don’t bare root, but maybe I’ll consider a half bare root this time.


“

I potted into a training pot that a friend gave me for helping water his trees over the summer while he was recovering from double hip replacement. It is not the final pot, but is much shallower and a bit wider than the initial pot. It sure didn't skip a beat after the repotting. I was planning on letting it recover for at least a year, but I am going to need to do some thinning to open up the inside to some more light.. no birds are flying through these branches.

I repotted at a workshop with Roy Nagotoshi. I think he was hoping to style the top and recommended jinning the crossing branch that I have deliberated over in the past. He understood when I said that I would consider jinning the branch, but that I wanted to focus on root development for the time being. He also said the pot was way to big but that it was probably the right size for training. He was also complimentary of my soil mixture (30% akadama, 30% calidama, 30% pumice + 5% spaghnum and 5% vermi-compost) and said that he likes my way of thinking about bonsai... Cool

The first photo was from immediately after the workshop. I did do some trimming and thinning then. and the second photo was a month and a half later from the opposite and back side. I trimmed one long straight bottom branch and used some twine to bring down the remaining portion of the branch that was reduced. I plan on running guy wires to many of the branches in order to bring them down and distribute the foliage so that more light can get in to the center.. I am not sure when I will do this though, maybe not until next year.

I do think there is a better base of roots hiding under there. I remember a wagon wheel of big roots that I had to wedge in to the initial training pot. Should I (next year) add some soil to the bottom to slowly raise the roots out of the pot for a reveal? There are a couple roots that I thought were awkward surface roots, but everyone one says to leave them when I talk about trying to dig down deeper. These heal wounds incredibly fast.”

 

[Japonicus]

I repotted at a workshop with Roy Nagotoshi

Thanks for the reply. Ok getting closer to the root detail, but here's my question on this...
...how did you guys address the roots when you potted it up?
Did you leave a nucleus of original soil, do a 30% reduction, trim feeder roots from perimeter, and so on.
Frank @River's Edge has a good idea on removing the core soil, and peripheral roots, then doing HBR's in stages
over the years...slowly. I'm just trying to get what has worked for others since I don't have a flat full of student trees
to practice on. I have 2 dwarf cultivars I got yesterday that are 1-2 yrs old (tiny) but formidable

Tiny Tsuga-meet Hussi and Jervis

Over priced for the size but happy to be getting under way this year with my 1st hemlocks including a Golden Splendor. Best thing is they're on their own roots best I can tell. Jervis roots are coming out of the bag. Both are dull, no sheen to the needles. Pics taken after a misting. I think I...

www.bonsainut.com

They are in open plastic bags so I either heal the ball into the ground now and pot up in May
or I could pot up with @River's Edge 's cautious approach now, and heel those pots into the ground for another year...
That's what I'm thinking on doing. Maybe...with 2 young ones in hand, I should use both approaches.

Should I (next year) add some soil to the bottom to slowly raise the roots out of the pot for a reveal?

Obviously I am not experienced with the roots of Tsuga, but Frank, read his post in my thread, suggests to lower
the surface every 3 or 4 months, so as to not remove too many surface feeder roots at any one time, when trying to
expose lower roots and basil flair.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I only removed enough roots to get it to fit in the next container. For me the “nucleus” was aggregate and roots. I tried to preserve as much as I could at collection, but did not manage much soil. There was some forest duft at collection, but that was well broken down by repotting. If there was residual muck or clay, I would have half bare rooted and then the other half the next year if responding well.
Another consideration is that dwarf varieties are, I believe, much less vigorous, which is an argument for generally being more conservative with your approach. I think I would recommend potting in a pond basket or colander. And letting it escape into a secondary container. I was much skeptical of the double or triple container method and was going to play a joke on my brother in law who suggested it, by using 7 nested colanders on some unsuspecting tree for next time he came to visit.
I forward him this recent article from bonsai tonight:

Onuma's mini-bonsai growing techniques - Bonsai Tonight

Growing techniques from Kazuo Onuma for developing chojubai, shimpaku juniper, and Japanese maple.

bonsaitonight.com

It’s hard to argue with results like that. And especially with a dwarf variety, I think some escape method will be necessary to expedite development.

 

[Japonicus]

I only removed enough roots to get it to fit in the next container. For me the “nucleus” was aggregate and roots.

Awesome. That's the kind of info I was looking for, and yes, dwarf...less vigorous.

I think I would recommend potting in a pond basket or colander.

I just put these in the ground for now. Tsuga and air root pruning kind of goes against my watering schedule.
Not that I won't do it, I am considering it...
I just had a mugo dry to very light weight this week with strong Northerlies after a week of rain. It was however my 1st
experience or I should say Winter, with a pond basket. With our mildest Winter ever, I did not get around to mulching
in my over Wintering spot that is sheltered as in a cave this year, so things needed a bit more watering.
Tsuga like hinoki likes more moisture correct? Thanks for the link to bonsai tonight, I subscribed, but I do not
see any of the associated pictures in that link. Thank you for your reply and generous offerings of the history on this one.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

A spring update as this springs into action. Some nice back-budding(to older needles), especially in the top section, which is looking a little crowded. I’ll need to watch closely so the wires don’t cut in too bad. I’m planning to attempt an air layer of the sacrifice soon. And then re-pot into a Sara Rayner pot next spring.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I recently attempted the air layer of the sacrifice branch and, win lose or draw on the layer, I am looking forward to next spring repotting.
I am not sure if I will be able to safely repot into the new pot in one go. Another repotting consideration is that I think there there may be a better base and rootage, buried somewhere in the middle of the root-ball. Over the past few years I tried adding “soil” (~boon’s) to the bottom of the pot, in the hopes that a new base would be reaped as the top washed away. However, the process has been counter productive, as I chickened out as the current surface roots started to wash away and succum.
I am left in a bit of a conundrum on how to proceed. I’m not positive that there are better roots underneath. A HBR, or even a 1/3 wedge could help me determine if there was better rootage hiding, but probably not great to plan in conjunction with a dramatic shallowing of the roots.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Photos of the air layer attempt, health and not so hot base.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I recently attempted the air layer of the sacrifice branch and, win lose or draw on the layer, I am looking forward to next spring repotting.
I am not sure if I will be able to safely repot into the new pot in one go. Another repotting consideration is that I think there there may be a better base and rootage, buried somewhere in the middle of the root-ball. Over the past few years I tried adding “soil” (~boon’s) to the bottom of the pot, in the hopes that a new base would be reaped as the top washed away. However, the process has been counter productive, as I chickened out as the current surface roots started to wash away and succum.
I am left in a bit of a conundrum on how to proceed. I’m not positive that there are better roots underneath. A HBR, or even a 1/3 wedge could help me determine if there was better rootage hiding, but probably not great to plan in conjunction with a dramatic shallowing of the roots.

I suppose I could do my best at getting into the shallower pot, but add one of those circular walls to keep more soil in towards the base, rather than dealing with the mounded soil. it is frustrating to realize that the action of adding soil to the bottom was so counter-productive, although I suppose it added some vigor in the meantime.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I finally got all the wire off of this as it was starting to dig in in places. Now comes the annual debate as to trim or not to trim. Saving all of the cut backs for the winter does seem to lead to more back budding on older needles for me, especially near the top. Also to consider is removal of sacrifice/air layer in about a month, whether it rooted or not. And then a repotting in the Spring, hopefully into my new Sara Rayner pot.
The growth does seem messier than normal for this time of year. Ironically, I think that the fine detail wiring looked cleaner freshly styled, but caused the new growth to shoot at unnatural angles. The bigger bends held very well, especially the apical trunk bend, but the lighter guy wire pulling the branches down, did not hold so well after the guys were removed. I’m thinking I’ll give it a cut-back soon. Taking out some congested areas near the top in favor of the new back buds. And thin sparingly on the lower branches leaving some stubs so that I can reapply some of the guy wires without worrying about having to remove anytime soon. Maybe even some screws set into the branches for anchors. I won’t tighten the guys much for now as it is not a great season for big bends from what I have read.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Some good progress on the chop scar.. hopefully it will cconinue to heal after I remove the sacrifice / attempted air layer in the next month. I haven’t checked for roots but planning on removing win lose or draw.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I couldn’t help but check the layer, and it had bridged big time in a couple places. 0 roots. I re attacked it with an exacto applied a wire tourniquet and some more hormone. I also added a plastic collar to try and get the @sorce air layer o matrix effect. And rewrapped in a roll of foil.

I’ve heard of airlayers taking more than a year. If I don’t have a green house for protection, is that possible?

I have a big repot coming up in the spring, and although I am sure species dependent, I am coming back around on balancing foliage to go with root reduction.. as long as cut paste is used, so I was debating putting off the separation until the repot next spring.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Today (July 31) I checked on the air layer second attempt after cutting the bridge and reapplying the turnicate about a month ago. And, one tiny, weak little root. With the avg first frost in my area in mid october, I still have a month and a half that I could separate?

What are my options?
Check in 6 weeks and hope?

Check in two months and then winter pot with de-icing Cable(bottom heat)?

Wait until spring and hope for roots before I repot the mother? Repotting the mother is higher priority because I don’t want that Sara Rayner pot sitting around un-utilized for any longer. And, I don’t want the huge sacrifice waving around on the result repotted tree. I suppose I could reduce it significantly if it came down to it.

Edit: even my sacrifices have sacrifices.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Keep the air layer wrapped. I have rooted a number of air layers that took 2 or more years. (one JBP took 3 years).

You winter the parent tree and air layer exactly the same way you would winter the parent plant without or before the air layer. Tsuga, hemlock, is extremely winter hardy. I would simply take the tree off the bench, set it on the ground for winter. Put it back up on the bench in spring. The air layer will pick up where it left off in autumn. Keep the moss around the air layer moist, but otherwise don't mess with it. I would not use additional hormone. Over do the hormones and the hormones will actually inhibit, slow or stop the development of roots.

Tsuga are hardy, no heat cable required.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Checked on the air-layer again.. no roots but looks like their might be some mychro, but maybe garden variety fungus too. I don’t have a ton of hope for the layer, but I rewrapped for the practice. This time I cut off the downward part of the plastic container, leaving a @sorce style radia layer disk and wrapped in plastic before the foil, whereas I just used foil before.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Poor photo skills, but it was time for “a little
Off the top” since my brother in law,from Brasil, won’t be wiring or raveling due to covid. It was good for me to practice a new technique called, “grow and clip,” not to be confused with the more traditional “clip and grow”.
Repotting into a Rayner pot this spring.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I am (mentally) prepping for the repotting this spring. I pruned off a fair amount of foliage over the winter, on the order of about 60-75%, which is not ideal going into a repot, but I was overdue for a cutback and wiring not happening by my brother in law due to covid travel restrictions. I am fairly confident of the health/strength going into the repot, but it is a much smaller pot. depending on what I see when I get in there, I may reduce the roots and repot back into the same pot rather than going full monty on it.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I’ve been talked out of jumping to the Sara Rayner pot this spring. I took too much off during the winter cut-back, well I’m not worried about the health of the tree, but if I repot hard.. which is required to fit the new shallower pot, then I’ll lose all of the potential back budding.
I was also talked out of trying to determine a better nebari from the surface down later in the growing season. Although I had planned so by putting some extra soil on the bottom a couple years ago, to boost out the roots for an uncovering, the action was counter productive considering that I am moving to a shallower pot, and if there are nice spreading roots under there somewhere, I would be more likely to find them from the bottom during the repot.
So, a little disappointed, but the best things for those who wait?!? I have some deciduous that could use repotting this spring anywho.

the chop is healing nicely, though it may need some carving, refining yet to come.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Some decent back-budding this Spring. Some even up further back than the foliage even, though not by much. I think I like the hard winter cut-back if it weren’t for delaying my plans to move to the Rayner pot.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

It is looking a little like a wet cat as the cutback grows out. The good news is that there are lots of “back-buds.” These rarely bud back before the last needle on the branch, but there are a few. It will be tough not to thin out the upper growth, and I may a little yet, but need to gather strength for the upcoming repot. Rayner here we come.