Turface Results After 2 Years

StoneCloud

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here ya go:

The End of Turface as Planting Medium
May 30, 2015
Today ends my 2 year journey to test the viability of turface as a substitute for akadama growing medium for sample bonsai in my collection. It has been recommended in club meetings and by cost conscious bonsai artists over the past few years as the price of Japanese Akadama has increased. Over the past year I have lost a small pine completely and weakened some tropical trees and young plants. Today, however, I took the last tree in the experimental mix to check the results. Over the two year period I had noticed the struggling foliage on the juniper procumbins with concern. I had fertilized and watered like all the rest of the juniper but this one was not growing much at all. The mix was 70% turface, 10% pumice, 10% lava, 10% fur bark. The fur bark had completely decomposed. I hydrated my trees as usual before the re-potting process.

I found that the turface held a lot of water and the juniper was not draining well. The turface was breaking down into power holding even more water. What was most disturbing was the lack of root growth. Normally when potting a tree after two years I would be cutting off roots. Not in this case. There was evidence of negative root growth so I did not trim roots at all. The juniper is now re-potted in the standard 70% akadama, with mixture of pumice, lava, kiryu. I am looking forward to better root development and thus a better foliage mass.

So my end results are that turface, holds a lot of water, breaks down to powder quickly and fails to hold nutrients that feed the tree. It can discourage root development and weaken the plant. I have also been doing soil temperature testing an found the turface medium had a slower rate of heat retention from the akadama mixes and dissipated heat much faster. After having several species either fail or weaken I will never recommend turface as an akadama replacement. I have read this from many bonsai purists but wanted to test it for myself. Even though turface is an inexpensive medium alternative, akadama proves it offers much better nutrient holding because of its surface structure and inherent nutritional benefits. I would rather pay the extra for healthy plants.


The root mass show negative root development in turface medium.


Tree has weakened substantially.


The turface material has broken down considerably in 2 years.


The foliage mass of the juniper is suffering.

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Anthony

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Hee hee ha ha ha -

"In rough strokes, there have been three main evolutions in our soil usage in North America. Earliest was the potting soil/sharp sand period, decades ago. "
source -
https://crataegus.com/2016/01/11/further-thoughts-on-turface/

___________________________________

Still using 1980 ----------- 5 mm builder's silica based sand and aged compost [ peat moss would have been the potting soil part ?]

Grows anything.

Turface problem was it breaks down - correct ? ------- not fired high enough - 980 to 1100 deg.C ?
Or am I mixing up the product ?

Our crushed brick works well, but does not break down.

Our hand rolled earthenware balls at 8 mm works very well.

Additionally, check humidity and top temps. Over 90 deg.F supposed to stop growth of roots and watering has to be adjusted.
A little organic next to properly fired turface [ not just sinter bonded 600 deg.C ] would ensure even wetting ?
Good Day
Anthony
 

StoneCloud

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@Anthony yes that is the issue with it.

I'm surprised it's still used.

I have to get me some of those earthen balls

I have always stuck to lava,pumice, akadama and a little pine bark. Never have any issues and the trees love it here.

I have never used turface and was looking it up and saw the article. Hagedorns article I didn't read til c54 posted it.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Post 1&5 isn't the Hagedorn article. And turface doesn't break down. Lots of dust can accumulate in the bottom of pots sitting outside for a couple years. Ask anyone with a swimming pool. I don't presently use Turface, because I got the same results as Hagedorn. However, it's redeeming quality to me was the fact it does not break down.
 

namnhi

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Gosh I skimmed through the text to the part where he stated turface break down after 2 years. Unless he has a different kind of turface... I have some that are approaching 10 years and still stay intact. This is BS.
 

StoneCloud

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See this is my confusion on Turface

How/why would results not be accurate

@Brian Van Fleet You're right it's not his article not sure where the mix up occurred.

So what is reality?

I'm guessing climate could change these results?

Thank you trying to understand!

I have never seen a reason to use turface though considering all the better soil choices out there. But I'm always open minded and want to learn more about this stuff. Results are so skewed.
 

chansen

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The biggest complaints w/turface are particle size and shape. They're small and flat. Can you grow stuff in it? Sure. I've done it, and many others have too. Are there better ways? Yes.

Rounder, larger particles provide more oxygen spaces and don't compact like turface will.

I agree that the most likely cause of the 'break down' in the blog post cited is really just dust/small particle accumulation at the bottom of the pot. As much as sifting/grading soil is a pain, there are benefits to it.

From what I've seen, there are a myriad of techniques that can be used to grow and maintain bonsai. However, some techniques are better than others, and will yield better results. Doesn't mean you can't do bonsai with turface, etc. But there will come a point where, if you want to push your tress to a higher level, you'll have to move to a better substrate. If you're happy what you're doing, and happy with your results, then stick with them. If not, look to those that are producing the trees you want to produce and figure out what it takes to get there.
 

music~maker

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These articles may represent the authors' experiences, but they definitely don't reflect mine. I've been using turface for many years now and don't have these issues at all. I mix it 2:1:1 turface:grit: pine bark, and for the pine bark I usually use Metromix 510, which is fancy potting soil that is heavily pine bark based.

I have healthy trees and have no problem at all with root growth or tree growth. This, incidentally, is also the mix used by my local bonsai shop, and they have strong, healthy trees as well. It's possible other mix percentages don't work out as well, but I've had no trouble with it the way I use it.

It also turns out to be a slightly lower maintenance mix in that it retains water a little bit longer than a purely inorganic mix would. Sometimes I travel and have others look after my trees, so this becomes important occasionally. But it can take daily watering no problem, so it's kind of best of both worlds.

This is definitely not the black & white situation that people make it out to be. Interestingly, I've had far more trouble over the years with trees that I acquired in akadama that had broken down and turned into a brick.

I'd be very curious to know if the folks who got poor results were using it as part of a mix (and if so, what it was) or if they were just planting in straight turface. Because while I'm sure they did get the results they said they got, they are so contrary to my own that I figure something must have been quite different in the approach.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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The greater the percentage of turface I used in my mix, the more my roots looked like those in Hagedorn's article. As a smaller part of a mix, and with regular repotting, I had no real issues with turface. When I dug up everything to move, I used a lot of turface, lava, and pine bark as a good cheap mix, but super retentive compared to akadama/lava/pumice.

I believe Hagedorn and know he is credible. I do not know this other writer, and his trees don't lead me to believe he has a whole lot of years in to compare results. And reading the article, its funny he's blaming the dust on a baked clay product and not the decomposing bark component of his mix.
 

watchndsky

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A smart man once said something along the lines of..... You cam grow bonsai in a pot full of marbles if you fertlize and water accordingly.... But why would you. Cant remember that dudes name
 

Shima

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A smart man once said something along the lines of..... You cam grow bonsai in a pot full of marbles if you fertlize and water accordingly.... But why would you. Cant remember that dudes name
Walter said as much.
 
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