Twin trunk alder

[berzerkules]

I haven't shared many of my trees here yet and figured I should document a beginner making mistakes.

5/18/22
Collected about 20 feet from a lake. Nice radial roots with no tap root. Was growing in about 6 inches of organic debris on top of a layer of sand. Quick easy dig.


6/5/22.
Seems to be doing alright, I haven't done much but wire down a couple branches that were shading out lower branches. I also trimmed back some of the stronger branches trying to give the weaker little trunk the top of the tree. I want to keep that little trunk strong so it doesn't abandon it in flavor of the stronger big trunk.

Eventually I would like more branches on the little trunk, it's looking a little sparse. Might attempt thread grafts at some point. I'll leave it alone all year and let it get established in a grow basket first.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

nice tree what exactly is it species of Adler . What’s the deal with the sand . That’s 2 of you guys in the far North that say thin layer of soul above sand . Was not aware there was that much sand up there

 

[berzerkules]

nice tree what exactly is it species of Adler . What’s the deal with the sand . That’s 2 of you guys in the far North that say thin layer of soul above sand . Was not aware there was that much sand up there

While looking up local trees I found out we have alnus rubra (red alder), alnus alnobetula (green alder) and alnus incana (grey alder). I'm not sure what I have here. I need to get better at identifying, but they all seem so similar, especially the younger ones.

We also have sitka alder that is a subspecies of alnobetula (sinuata) but the closest native range I've seen on maps are small pockets about 50-100 miles south of where I live. The only sitka alder I have was collected about 300 miles south from here. I don't see them often. I'll have an opportunity to possibly collect late August to early September.

I'm also not sure if alder cross pollinate. I know we have multiple species of birch up here and I've read that the cross pollinate easily so a positive id is difficult if you don't get it tested.

As for the thin layer of soil on top of sand, it's not that common. I find spots like that around rivers and lakes mostly. I try to target those spots when I can and look for trees that are easier to collect. The problem is most of the trees in those areas aren't very interesting. They are either to young and small or older clumps that are unmanageable clumps. I bet if I had a river boat I would have access to a lot more interesting trees but for now I just walk along lakes and rivers when I get the chance.

 

[HorseloverFat]

While looking up local trees I found out we have alnus rubra (red alder), alnus alnobetula (green alder) and alnus incana (grey alder). I'm not sure what I have here. I need to get better at identifying, but they all seem so similar, especially the younger ones.

I'm also not sure if alder cross pollinate. I know we have multiple species of birch up here and I've read that the cross pollinate easily so a positive id is difficult if you don't get it tested.

As for the thin layer of soil on top of sand, it's not that common. I find spots like that around rivers and lakes mostly. I try to target those spots when I can and look for trees that are easier to collect. The problem is most of the trees in those areas aren't very interesting. They are either to young and small or older clumps that are unmanageable clumps. I bet if I had a river boat I would have access to a lot more interesting trees but for now I just walk along lakes and rivers when I get the chance.

I love alnus!!

This LOOKS like the incana that I am familiar with... but I'm not super good at Alder ID.

These are prone to natural raft-style, out in the woods, near creeks, small rivers and streams.

 

[berzerkules]

I love alnus!!

This LOOKS like the incana that I am familiar with... but I'm not super good at Alder ID.

These are prone to natural raft-style, out in the woods, near creeks, small rivers and streams.

I noticed that they like laying down alot. I was thinking about that when I wired some small ones last year and repotted this year close to horizontal that I plan on making rafts out of.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

While looking up local trees I found out we have alnus rubra (red alder), alnus alnobetula (green alder) and alnus incana (grey alder). I'm not sure what I have here. I need to get better at identifying, but they all seem so similar, especially the younger ones.

We also have sitka alder that is a subspecies of alnobetula (sinuata) but the closest native range I've seen on maps are small pockets about 50-100 miles south of where I live. The only sitka alder I have was collected about 300 miles south from here. I don't see them often. I'll have an opportunity to possibly collect late August to early September.

I'm also not sure if alder cross pollinate. I know we have multiple species of birch up here and I've read that the cross pollinate easily so a positive id is difficult if you don't get it tested.

As for the thin layer of soil on top of sand, it's not that common. I find spots like that around rivers and lakes mostly. I try to target those spots when I can and look for trees that are easier to collect. The problem is most of the trees in those areas aren't very interesting. They are either to young and small or older clumps that are unmanageable clumps. I bet if I had a river boat I would have access to a lot more interesting trees but for now I just walk along lakes and rivers when I get the chance.

Never been that far north . 2 things get a boat All you really need is a borrowed canoe . Anywhere in the north that water freezes . The wind across that ice has incredible torturing effects on trees . You don’t have to even get out of the boat to scout the best will be near the water edge and not far above the surface . 2 birch are hard to bonsai like others I have tried and or am trying Most of the regular species paper river grey all are difficult and have nasty habit of pruned branches dyeing The 1 exception is apparently arctic birch small leaf incredible hardy slow growing makes stunning bonsai I would be serious ly hunting It’s really a dwarf paper birch ( I’ll take seeds in the nail please and thank you ) Man there must be incredible conifers there . Think you have to be a northerner to understand how hard winter can be on trees Think anywhere do trees and wind meet

 

[berzerkules]

Never been that far north . 2 things get a boat All you really need is a borrowed canoe . Anywhere in the north that water freezes . The wind across that ice has incredible torturing effects on trees . You don’t have to even get out of the boat to scout the best will be near the water edge and not far above the surface . 2 birch are hard to bonsai like others I have tried and or am trying Most of the regular species paper river grey all are difficult and have nasty habit of pruned branches dyeing The 1 exception is apparently arctic birch small leaf incredible hardy slow growing makes stunning bonsai I would be serious ly hunting It’s really a dwarf paper birch ( I’ll take seeds in the nail please and thank you ) Man there must be incredible conifers there . Think you have to be a northerner to understand how hard winter can be on trees Think anywhere do trees and wind meet

Yeah, birch can be finicky and unpredictable but with the limited available native species I'll work with what I've got. I've heard it's not worth the trouble but then you have Dennis Vojtilla winning finest deciduous at the 5th US nationals. I'm still really new to all of this but I have hope that I can figure out how to work birch. Birch does really well up here, we have several species, they're easy to collect, they're everywhere and look at the leaves. I have to at least try.

As for conifers, I haven't figured them out yet. I collected quite a few last year and they seemed to do well until half of them just didn't wake up this spring. I felt bad so I did t dig any spruce this year. I need more practice collecting little insignificant spruce before I attempt to collect nicer ones.

 

[NaoTK]

but then you have Dennis Vojtilla winning finest deciduous at the 5th US nationals.

Here is that tree, I actually made the pot. The damn thing keeps losing branches randomly from the bottom up, so he is constantly turning the front around and redesigning. You can see a major branch on the main trunk was lost.

I think your tree is a birch. I keep shohin sized alders/birches but I hate that even they will randomly toss branches off.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Yeah, birch can be finicky and unpredictable but with the limited available native species I'll work with what I've got. I've heard it's not worth the trouble but then you have Dennis Vojtilla winning finest deciduous at the 5th US nationals. I'm still really new to all of this but I have hope that I can figure out how to work birch. Birch does really well up here, we have several species, they're easy to collect, they're everywhere and look at the leaves. I have to at least try.
View attachment 441905View attachment 441907
As for conifers, I haven't figured them out yet. I collected quite a few last year and they seemed to do well until half of them just didn't wake up this spring. I felt bad so I did t dig any spruce this year. I need more practice collecting little insignificant spruce before I attempt to collect nicer onesi

Yeah, birch can be finicky and unpredictable but with the limited available native species I'll work with what I've got. I've heard it's not worth the trouble but then you have Dennis Vojtilla winning finest deciduous at the 5th US nationals. I'm still really new to all of this but I have hope that I can figure out how to work birch. Birch does really well up here, we have several species, they're easy to collect, they're everywhere and look at the leaves. I have to at least try.
View attachment 441905View attachment 441907
As for conifers, I haven't figured them out yet. I collected quite a few last year and they seemed to do well until half of them just didn't wake up this spring. I felt bad so I did t dig any spruce this year. I need more practice collecting little insignificant spruce before I attempt to collect nicer ones.

I said my peace about birch . As for the conifers a lot of experts especially oriental claim spruce is the hardest tree to collect . Once there established in a pot there tough line in the wild . Working against you is the short growing growing season . Some would say you need to dig at the exact right time . I think that far north you need to dig as early as you can get all the roots you can . You can personally I would add better soil and fertilizer trim back the roots for 1/2 the tree then wait a 1 to 2 year collect has a lot better chance of success anything you can do to extend the growing season after collection will help . Short growing season tree dug in spring not sufficiently recovered harsh long winter not enough energy to push buds . Single year success may be difficult or impossible Consider electric heating pad after collection get them roots warmed up Don’t trim the foliage when collecting you need solar Panels others will disagree with what I have just said Seek the advice of people that collect in cold climate and or alpine regions where it can be very cold and short growing season I think they will agree with me

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Are you familiar with these koozy kots they are for early planting warm living plants in spring idea is double layer of plastic like a wall filled with water the water warms it the spring sun and protects the plant with its heat at night . This principle I know can help you

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Here is that tree, I actually made the pot. The damn thing keeps losing branches randomly from the bottom up, so he is constantly turning the front around and redesigning. You can see a major branch on the main trunk was lost.

I think your tree is a birch. I keep shohin sized alders/birches but I hate that even they will randomly toss branches off.

View attachment 441912

Very nice pot is that European silver birch

 

[berzerkules]

Minor set back, this is the one tree I didn't spray with fungicide after collection so of course it gets the rust that is on a lot of alder around here. After a lot of time on google I'm pretty sure it's melampsoridium alni or melampsoridium hiratsukanum. Apparently this rust can spread from alder to larch to complete its life cycle but larch is not necessary.

Anyways, I did a full defoliation almost 2 weeks ago and several treatments. Thought I had it under control but today I found 2 infected leaves. Cut those leaves off and did another treatment. Hopefully this takes care of it. I did a dormant spray last fall and another application before everything leafed out. I've seen no sign of this fungal infection on any of my other alders and would hate for it to spread

I spotted it in very early stage. It starts out white and spreads in between the veins of the leaves. If left unchecked it will turn rust colored.

Here it is today. On a positive note, after defoliation I did get a few buds to pop on the smaller trunk like I wanted. Buds popped a little lower than I wanted but I'll take the little victories when I can.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Minor set back, this is the one tree I didn't spray with fungicide after collection so of course it gets the rust that is on a lot of alder around here. After a lot of time on google I'm pretty sure it's melampsoridium alni or melampsoridium hiratsukanum. Apparently this rust can spread from alder to larch to complete its life cycle but larch is not necessary.

Anyways, I did a full defoliation almost 2 weeks ago and several treatments. Thought I had it under control but today I found 2 infected leaves. Cut those leaves off and did another treatment. Hopefully this takes care of it. I did a dormant spray last fall and another application before everything leafed out. I've seen no sign of this fungal infection on any of my other alders and would hate for it to spread

I spotted it in very early stage. It starts out white and spreads in between the veins of the leaves. If left unchecked it will turn rust colored.
View attachment 443345
Here it is today. On a positive note, after defoliation I did get a few buds to pop on the smaller trunk like I wanted. Buds popped a little lower than I wanted but I'll take the little victories when I can.
View attachment 443346

Good job getting it early what do you use fir as spray to kill it

 

[berzerkules]

Looking a lot better and no sign of rust.

Good job getting it early what do you use fir as spray to kill it

All I had on hand was lime sulfur so that's what I used.

 

[BobbyLane]

I like that, nice root spread. yes looks like Birch to me too, I have one in the ground, I reduced a piece of trunk on it yest, may dig it up next season. it produces catkins every season in the ground, but im sure as soon as its in a pot ill never see another catkin again

thread on it here: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/betula-pendula-silver-birch.39513/

 

[Colorado]

I like that, nice root spread. yes looks like Birch to me too, I have one in the ground, I reduced a piece of trunk on it yest, may dig it up next season. it produces catkins every season in the ground, but im sure as soon as its in a pot ill never see another catkin again

thread on it here: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/betula-pendula-silver-birch.39513/

Yes it looks like a birch, but it looks more like an alder, which also looks like a birch

 

[BobbyLane]

Yes it looks like a birch, but it looks more like an alder, which also looks like a birch

speaking of Alder, here's a nice one from a chap in the UK

 

[berzerkules]

I like that, nice root spread. yes looks like Birch to me too, I have one in the ground, I reduced a piece of trunk on it yest, may dig it up next season. it produces catkins every season in the ground, but im sure as soon as its in a pot ill never see another catkin again

thread on it here: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/betula-pendula-silver-birch.39513/

I got sidetracked talking about birch earlier in this thread and posted a couple pics of birch leaves from another one of my trees, that might be part of the confusion. The tree in the first post is most definitely an alder.

It's fairly easy to tell the birch and alder apart up here. They have completly different bark, alder leaves are more oval shaped while birch are heart shaped, birch branches are alot stiffer when they lignify and they will break before they bend much, while alder remains flexible a lot longer. We also don't have a large variety of deciduous up here so it's easier. I'm sure there are species around the world that look similar and could create confusion as well.

speaking of Alder, here's a nice one from a chap in the UK

I think this is the nicest alder I've seen. Do you have the name of the owner of that tree? I'd like to look them up and see their other trees. There seems to be a lot of nice deciduous in the UK for people to draw inspiration from, makes sense in interested in UK artists.

I have an alder marked for collection next year that is very close to the spot I got this one. It isn't very tall, has several lower branches and about a 5 inchtrunk. I might have to use that tree as inspiration or I might take it a totally different direction, who knows.

Not the best pic, I just snapped a quick few on my phone so I remember the tree and where it is.

 

[Shogun610]

speaking of Alder, here's a nice one from a chap in the UK

That’s a nice one .. I’ll have to share w you mine tomorrow w nebari

 

[BonsaiPoppie]

I got sidetracked talking about birch earlier in this thread and posted a couple pics of birch leaves from another one of my trees, that might be part of the confusion. The tree in the first post is most definitely an alder.

It's fairly easy to tell the birch and alder apart up here. They have completly different bark, alder leaves are more oval shaped while birch are heart shaped, birch branches are alot stiffer when they lignify and they will break before they bend much, while alder remains flexible a lot longer. We also don't have a large variety of deciduous up here so it's easier. I'm sure there are species around the world that look similar and could create confusion as well.

I think this is the nicest alder I've seen. Do you have the name of the owner of that tree? I'd like to look them up and see their other trees. There seems to be a lot of nice deciduous in the UK for people to draw inspiration from, makes sense in interested in UK artists.

I have an alder marked for collection next year that is very close to the spot I got this one. It isn't very tall, has several lower branches and about a 5 inchtrunk. I might have to use that tree as inspiration or I might take it a totally different direction, who knows.

Not the best pic, I just snapped a quick few on my phone so I remember the tree and where it is.
View attachment 446687

I am slightly alive....