Tx Cedar Elm Ulmus crassifolia

[Underdog]

I have this Cedar Elm I am pretty proud of and want to share a plan and progression of it. as well as solicit advice.

It's about 1 1/2 inch base with wonderful bark and a long graceful trunk calling literati to me. I have two nice low branches but a long segment with none. I'd thought to wait and see if anything sprouts out the mid section this spring, and if not remove the lower two. Even if something pops But, I'm pretty well sold on this plan.

 

[Underdog]

I plan to whittle down the top bulge from a previous chop and remove the winged apex to use the smaller weeping branches below.
Where the mature bark stops only the weeping branches will remain.

 

[Underdog]

I have a couple pots in mind for it and would love suggestions. It had a pretty compact root ball when I put it in this larger basket to let it grow while I thought about it. The first choice may be too small at 6 1/2 x 1 1/2. The second tan colored one probably is most appropriate size at 7x2 health wise. The last choice is just a bail out if the roots grew too much in the basket.

 

[Underdog]

That's my plan and I'm stickin to it. LOL Unless you Nutz tell me it's a terrible idea. Please offer up your more experienced thoughts. This begins my 4th season with no instruction other than here.
Thanks again.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

It is funny how, over the years, your approach towards bonsai changes...

I spent many years trying to learn how to make bonsai. Now I try to make naturalistic trees in miniature... that just happen to be in pots.

Elms are one of those species that will mess with you. You can style them traditionally as bonsai and they will look very nice. Or you can try to style them as adult trees in miniature... and you will go in a very different direction. I have a few elm bonsai with curvy lower trunks and downward sweeping lower branches that I like a lot. But that is not how elms grow in the wild. For most elms, there is not such thing as sweeping branches - because that is not how they grow. So I am not trying to sound critical, but if you were to expand your horizon and think of your tree in terms of a grand old 200 year elm what would it look like? Maybe something like:



Perhaps this image will get you to think about your tree a little differently. When I style important trees now, I try to go online first, think about my tree, and try to find a photo from nature of an old tree that would work with my design. I print it out and leave it by my bench as inspiration as I style and wire and prune.

 

[Underdog]

I'll try that with a different tree BNut. Maybe with the top I'll prune off and hopefully root.. I'm surrounded with Elms here and have one growing in that fashion now as well as a large raft/cascade fallen tree project. Lots of them in the woods here too. I do appreciate your advice and especially this part.

I spent many years trying to learn how to make bonsai. Now I try to make naturalistic trees in miniature... that just happen to be in pots.

I just don't see that design coming out of this trunk without chopping it down and starting over. This one is too pretty to me with this bark to chop.
Thank you for your reply.

 

[Zach Smith]

A huge number of trees will pass through your hands as you pursue bonsai. One of the rules I've tried to follow is to "listen" to the tree and design accordingly. Which means that what you saw in this tree should be pursued until it just flat doesn't work out. Nothing against what BNut says, but you can get lots more Cedar elms and make traditional, non-traditional and naturalistic styles with them. Cutting most of this tree off to insist it be something it's not, that wouldn't be my first approach with it.

For what it's worth.

 

[Underdog]

Thank you Zach. I've never really liked Literati style trees. I just feel that's what this tree is telling me.
It's still an Elm and could be restyled as something else in the future I believe if this doesn't work out.

Also, I still have to get this one through and Ohio winter. I am pushing it's cold hardy limits up here. I always seem to Jinx the trees I post here and was hesitant to post this one.

 

[sorce]

I really appreaciate BNUT and Zack advice.

They cut down the Elm in Berwyn I've posted before....sad day! It was big!

Anyway. I can dig your weeper, however....
They make weeping landscape elms like that, so you or anyone else may not be too impressed with the final image. But you can still make it if you want.....

BUT....I would make it from an Airlayer just above those 2 branches. Sure it will be a bit shorter, but still fully barked, any little movement you lose can be gained back with a slight angle to the layer, and the basal flare will return shortly with the layer.

Not to mention that Dope little fat trunker already in the soil.

That quite honestly is what I'd be working for.
Wouldn't want to throw out all that bark though...so Id probly make that weeper too...till it sprouts low branches!

FWIW....I keep making this pot....and it keeps not being good enough. But I think for every rendition that doesn't work .....
I'll throw you a freebie!

Thanks!

Sorce

 

[rockm]

Thank you Zach. I've never really liked Literati style trees. I just feel that's what this tree is telling me.
It's still an Elm and could be restyled as something else in the future I believe if this doesn't work out.

Also, I still have to get this one through and Ohio winter. I am pushing it's cold hardy limits up here. I always seem to Jinx the trees I post here and was hesitant to post this one.

Cedar elm grows in many forms. Some are literati-ish, especially those growing in more exposed locations.

I stole the photo below of an old CE in a Texas field from this native plant site
https://npsot.org/wp/story/2011/1687/

 

[rockm]

FWIW, sticking to what the tree "tells" you is always my primary path with bonsai. A noted long-time bonsai-ist from the South told me a decade ago on another site that my Texas live oak bonsai "didn't look like a live oak" He advised me to cut it down to the first curve out of the ground (where the first branch on the left emerges) in favor of making a more "appropriate" oak multi-trunked image. That assumed I had another 25 years to grow out those new leaders...Needless to say, not an option...

 

[Underdog]

FWIW, sticking to what the tree "tells" you is always my primary path with bonsai.

Thank you for the input Rock. I'm going to do what I think this one is telling me. I just hope I'm hearing it correctly. LOL
I really like it and hope it wakes up this spring so I can check out the roots and put it one of those pots. Then start working on ramification to build the best tree I can out of it.. Thanks again.

By the way. Amazing tree you posted!

 

[rockm]

Thank you for the input Rock. I'm going to do what I think this one is telling me. I just hope I'm hearing it correctly. LOL
I really like it and hope it wakes up this spring so I can check out the roots and put it one of those pots. Then start working on ramification to build the best tree I can out of it.. Thanks again.

By the way. Amazing tree you posted!

I have a large single trunked cedar elm that was collected 20 years ago. It's got literati-ish tendencies. Also have another CE I got last summer that is in the beginning stages of work. It will also be a single trunked tree with sparse branching.

Where did you get yours if you don't mind my asking? Just curious.

 

[Underdog]

Wiggarts in FL. Bought it on the 99cent auction last winter and had them keep it until spring. Pretty much plopped it into the basket and let it grow all season with only a couple minor trims to useless branches.
Coming from FL I worry about it taking my winter. It's in an unheated crawl space when temps drop below 25 this year.
I think I paid 30-35 bucks 1 dollar a week storage and shipped here in April for 50-60 total. They have more as I saw one posted by them this winter which also had great bark. If this one makes it here I may try another too.

 

[rockm]

Wiggarts in FL. Bought it on the 99cent auction last winter and had them keep it until spring. Pretty much plopped it into the basket and let it grow all season with only a couple minor trims to useless branches.
Coming from FL I worry about it taking my winter. It's in an unheated crawl space when temps drop below 25 this year.
I think I paid 30-35 bucks 1 dollar a week storage and shipped here in April for 50-60 total. They have more as I saw one posted by them this winter which also had great bark. If this one makes it here I may try another too.

There is an isolated population of CE in northern Fla. Don't know if that's where it was sourced. They mainly live in Texas, La. and Okla. Mine are Texas trees and are reasonably winter hardy. I give them only mulch covering on the ground out of the wind over winter. The big one has made it through a few tough winters with below zero F temps without any problems.

FWIW, best way to get a branch on CE where you want it, is to inarch graft a nearby young branch. Since the smaller branches and twigs can extend quickly and can get very long very quickly, they can be bent pretty easily and grafted back to the trunk where you want them. More efficient than waiting for a bud to pop where you want it.

 

[Underdog]

Do you think I should remove the two low branches and the top as described earlier? Is my plan reasonable? Providing it wakes up...
My research has them hardy to zone 5 or 6 depending on the source. Figuring it's first winter here I'm babying it this year. Next year mulched under the bench.

 

[rockm]

Do you think I should remove the two low branches and the top as described earlier? Is my plan reasonable? Providing it wakes up...
My research has them hardy to zone 5 or 6 depending on the source. Figuring it's first winter here I'm babying it this year. Next year mulched under the bench.

I would get rid of those lower branches. I would hesitate, however, to get it into its final bonsai pot in the next couple of years, especially in one of those smaller ones. You will slow down development. I'd aim for a pot that's an inch wider and deeper than what you've shown here. A slightly larger pot will allow for faster growth, but also facilitate getting it into a smaller pot down the road.

 

[Underdog]

What I did, right or wrong. Slightly larger pot as the tan one got broken right after repotting. Blew off the bench... Reduced folage and top by about 50 percent.

 

[Underdog]

 

[Underdog]

Good season for her and little sister BroomHilda the root cutting.