Ulmus americana

Jzack605

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I decided to start a personal project growing various native trees that have been significantly impacted through history by various pathogens and pests. I placed an order for some true American chestnuts (ended up they had no more stock) and a few American elms to start it off. The goal being to emulate how they would grow naturally and to preserve these species.

Curious has anyone used these for bonsai?

here are the whips with my 9” Japanese secateurs for scale after being put into pots. They came bare root A42089D5-369A-4B98-AFED-B3FFA62391ED.jpeg
 

Bonsai Nut

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I am a big fan of American elms. I am pessimistic about their use for bonsai simply due to the size of their leaves. I once had an amazing American elm on a property in northern Illinois, but as amazing as the tree was in landscape, the leaves were approaching 6".
 

BrianBay9

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I am a big fan of American elms. I am pessimistic about their use for bonsai simply due to the size of their leaves. I once had an amazing American elm on a property in northern Illinois, but as amazing as the tree was in landscape, the leaves were approaching 6".

I have several American elms. The leaves reduce from hand-sized to thumb-sized, so they are do-able. I'm trying for shohin, so still working on further reduction. I'll try to get some photos in a day or so.
 

Mikecheck123

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I've seen many people rave about them on this site.

So this spring I ordered two seven-footers from fastgrowingtrees.com and couldn't be happier.

They're both more like 9 feet already. Air layer festival!
 

Jzack605

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Yep I am aware. I’m not sure these are any cultivar in particular. I believe they are the straight species.
 

Silentrunning

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For me it seems you have to time Elm defoliation to when the local shows are to show small leaves. About a month before you want to show your tree defoliate it. The new leaves will be very small for the show. I know this is a cheat but until I figure out how to grow them small, this is the best I can do. Also Elms can look great bare during the winter.
 

Jzack605

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That’s what I suspected and hoping for the same with American chestnut if I can find someone selling the true species
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I have had, and just starting some seed again this year of American elm. I second what @Zach Smith says, the leaves do reduce nicely, once you get some ramification. Also, dutch elm disease is not a problem, as a bonsai tree is too small to attract the bark beetle that carries the disease, and if you do get the disease. the elm being in a bonsai pot, it is easy to drench the tree with the appropriate fungicide.

American chestnut. Castanea dentata - here the chestnut blight is everywhere east of the Rocky Mountains, and persists as many other species of trees and shrubs can serve as alternate hosts for the chestnut blight. There are scattered areas free of chestnut blight west of the Rockies, but I am unclear as to where these areas are. There are some blight free, cultivated American chestnuts in a few northern west coast cities. These trees have no resistance to blight, but persist because the disease is not present there ,,,, yet. So far limited disease resistance has been bred into American chestnut by conventional plant breeding. Strong resistance has been achieved by GMO techniques, using a gene from a grass to achieve strong resistance (not total, but pretty strong). I don't know the availability of the GMO chestnuts. Good resistance is achieved through hybridization with Chinese chestnuts which are immune to the blight. The Chinese-American hybrids have been back bred to be fairly close in character to American chestnut, but they are still hybrids none the less.

The chestnut blight will infect American chestnuts usually by the time they are 10 or 15 years old. In a bonsai pot it might be possible to treat chemically, but I am not aware of any proven fungicide that will work on chestnut blight. Seed of the pure, wild form of the species is expensive when you find it. Seedlings are limited in availability, and there are waiting lists to get the transgenic GMO seedlings. The hybrid trees are of uneven quality and resistance. Some of the hybrids grow low and wide like their Chinese chestnut ancestor, the ones that grow tall like the American chestnut are still uncommon.

The American chinquapin, Castanea pumila - is just as susceptible to blight as the American chestnut. Since it suckers from the roots, and produces seed on fairly young trunks, it has persisted in the wild better than the American chestnut. Seed, when you can find it is expensive.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Castanea - the Chestnuts. In general for bonsai combine the worst traits of beech and oak into one as bonsai. The leaves are large. They seem to be like beech, in that they normally produce only one flush of growth per year. Requires planning for cutting back and pruning. When I had Chinese chestnuts, I found they grew so fast that internode lengths were quite long, and it was difficult to slow them down. They do not seem to "trunk up" very quickly while being cultivated in a pot. My experiment with Chinese chestnut only lasted 3 years, then the trees perished due to an accidental travel induced drought, that took out a number of my trees.

Basically, they are not an easy subject for bonsai. Probably will only be good for larger scale trees. In theory they do flower and produce seed fairly young, so one could end up with a 3 or 4 foot tall bonsai with real chestnuts. Add the issue of disease susceptibility and you have a difficult tree to use for bonsai.
 

Sansui

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I decided to start a personal project growing various native trees that have been significantly impacted through history by various pathogens and pests. I placed an order for some true American chestnuts (ended up they had no more stock) and a few American elms to start it off. The goal being to emulate how they would grow naturally and to preserve these species.

Curious has anyone used these for bonsai?

here are the whips with my 9” Japanese secateurs for scale after being put into pots. They came bare root View attachment 302122
Hi, Here is my American Elm pre-bonsai attempt, the parent tree next door and a stray that is growing out of a rock retaining wall in my garden. The results look promising for bonsai. BTW, my son will be moving to Port Jefferson in a month. Small world!
 

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Jzack605

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@Sansui Looks like a nice start! You're son will love Port Jeff. I live about 45min away, love that town and consider it for when I settle down often.

@Leo in N E Illinois excellent info re. the Chestnut. Apparently there has been some historical chemical control, although obviously not much success as far as protecting the species goes. Longevity, rate of infections, cost and practicality in a natural setting may be the culprits that inhibited chemical controls success. Apparently propiconozole injections have anecdotally worked. Also more recently agrifos (phosphorus based fungicide) applied to the trunks with pentrabark have showed some success for 1-2 seasons. There's also a soil compress method that might actually be practical for bonsai and a virus that attacks the blight that's not available outside of a lab. (https://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/chestnut/breeding/blight/control-blight).

I'm still going to give it a shot. Have no plans in injecting bonsai as I don't think that is practical or good for the tree, injection sites are mostly minor wounds on a tree in the landscape but bonsai it would be problematic I suspect. I'd be curious if the agrifos (I apply it under the label reliant) would work as a drench like it does for phytophothora. And would love to test out the soil compress.
 

Sansui

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Nice...In the small pic, I thought that golf ball was an orange! Lol!

Small world. Big fruit!

Sorce
Thank you Sorce. I found that one in my yard along with an assortment other golf balls over the years. I've also found aluminum shaft arrows sticking out of the ground with hunting broadheads. Not so good.
 

AaronThomas

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How do American Elms do in the heat compared to say Chinese Elm?.... like Arizona heat.
 

Sansui

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So far so good in SE PA. Of course our humidity levels are much higher throughout the year. My two very small Chinese Elms are also surviving with full sun exposure and daily watering in the summer months. Doesn't Arizona have the hottest spot in the world? Oracle?
 

Jzack605

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How do American Elms do in the heat compared to say Chinese Elm?.... like Arizona heat.
Apparently their range goes down to Florida and west to Texas. Might be possible if you are in the USDA growing zone range. It’s pretty wide if I recall right.

1589297439669.png
 

AaronThomas

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Thanks @Jzack605
Southern and Eastern Texas.... should be on. Need to watch during the summer I reckon.
 
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