Ulmus P. 'Hokkaido' clump - What would you do?

[Kanorin]

Background: I've been putting sticks in pots for just under a year now. I've got about 10 trees in the very early to early stages of development, so I was very excited to find this tree at my local nursery, which I believe could be made into a decent (for a beginner) shohin-sized bonsai in maybe 3-5 years. I haven't looked at the roots much yet, but probably going to ground-layer anyway.

The main things that probably need addressed early on are that 1) there are three equal sized trunks emerging from the base, and 2) The point that they emerge from the base seems too high off the soil line for a future shohin tree.

Trunk close-up

Full tree (from the back). I cut off one larger branch right away because it was contributing to some reverse taper in the middle trunk.


Three potential design ideas for the main trunk structure
1) Triple trunk - seems like this is what the tree wants to do. Maybe I could leave more branches on one of the trunks to thicken that one up to be thicker than the others...probably would take quite a few years to look good. I could definitely ground layer it to bring the roots and soil line higher.


2) Twin trunk, but choosing one of the smaller branches emerging from the clump as the secondary to achieve more of a 3:1 ratio of main to secondary trunk.


3) "The middle finger" - Basically air layer off 2 of the 3 main trunks and keep one. I'm not sure how long it would take to make the transition between the base and the trunk seem smooth...probably a long time. But it might get hidden if I ground layer and bring the root/soil line up quite a bit.


What direction would you take this tree?
Open to other ideas as well!

 

[JudyB]

Not a fan of single trunk idea for this one. The twin doesn't do much for me either. The triple trunk could work, but how about taking a look to see if a true clump (many trunks) could be an option. Not too many good ones out there, and this looks to be a natural for that. Good find!

 

[bonsaichile]

Just be careful. Branches on Hokkaido are extremely brittle, therefore hard to wire, and they lose a lot of them over winter. They are prolific back budders, but hard to ramify. Good luck!

 

[Colorado]

Agree with Judy. I’d leave all three and develop some of those smaller shoots near the base into sub trunks.

Trying to heal large wounds or substantially increase trunk diameter is going to take a long, long time given how slow these grow.

Be prepared to be told these are no good for bonsai, too brittle, too fragile, too weak, etc ... but I really like Hokkaido.

 

[sorce]

I think you should make it a hand.
These guys are making good use of material like this, one links to another I think, or search it.

Something fun like this will make this quick.

I'd ask @Bonsai Nut about information on wether or not it's feasible to grow out a trunk, or change the sizes etc ....I feel like they grow to slow to not make a hand.

Sorce

 

[Kanorin]

Not a fan of single trunk idea for this one. The twin doesn't do much for me either. The triple trunk could work, but how about taking a look to see if a true clump (many trunks) could be an option. Not too many good ones out there, and this looks to be a natural for that. Good find!

There are an additional 4 smaller branches emerging from the base on the back.

I think you should make it a hand.
These guys are making good use of material like this, one links to another I think, or search it.

Something fun like this will make this quick.

This tree definitely is starting to resemble a hand. Like a tormented zombie hand emerging from the earth. Could be a hand entirely viewed from the current front with trying to get one more “pinky” shoot coming out on the right. Or With the current branches in the back, could look like a grasping hand from a 45 degree downward looking angle...lots to consider.

 

[sorce]

When it comes to bang for your buck....

This tree, displayed as a hand, with some of that "dead man's fingers" fungus as an accent. Like @HorseloverFat recently posted pics of.
Is going to bang harder than any other direction this tree can move in.

When it comes to appropriate use of material....
If you didn't want to use this design, you can sell it to someone who would, and get more bang for the buck you want to design. Faster than this material could get there.

I reckon a cutting of any excess fingers could provide you additional material with which to create other design, better than this is offering you a beginning for.

Sorry, I'm totally dragging on about this idea, that we should make the best out of something and move on, because aha!

I'm calling it the "Kimura Complex".

When people don't understand that the energy it takes to "change" something immensely, is better put toward different material all together.

Allowing for 2 better trees, for the same energy output.

Resorce.

Sorce

 

[Kanorin]

When it comes to bang for your buck....

This tree, displayed as a hand, with some of that "dead man's fingers" fungus as an accent. Like @HorseloverFat recently posted pics of.
Is going to bang harder than any other direction this tree can move in.

When it comes to appropriate use of material....
If you didn't want to use this design, you can sell it to someone who would, and get more bang for the buck you want to design. Faster than this material could get there.

I reckon a cutting of any excess fingers could provide you additional material with which to create other design, better than this is offering you a beginning for.

Sorry, I'm totally dragging on about this idea, that we should make the best out of something and move on, because aha!

I'm calling it the "Kimura Complex".

When people don't understand that the energy it takes to "change" something immensely, is better put toward different material all together.

Allowing for 2 better trees, for the same energy output.

I'm liking this zombie hand clump idea more and more. I think my kids will dig it too
I've got a 'corticosa' chinese elm coming from Evergreen Gardenworks later this summer that I can do something more traditional with.

When this thing is ready for a bonsai pot, could I commission @sorce to make something appropriately ghoulish?

 

[sorce]

Well be able to find something that works.
Hopefully I get good enough to take a real commission by the time you need it. But I foresee a learning mode for at least the next 2 years that will kill any promises, and though it hurts to not provide, it hurts worse to break promises.

Pretty sure my regular successful output is likely to score for this tree anyway!

Aye for the kids! All for the kids!

Sorce

 

[cmeg1]

I would hack it back and wait for backbuds.
Me personally like the chop back to stump option as long as it is growing healthily and leaves have been feeding the tree a while.If they just sprouted I would give it awhile with low nitrogen feed so it does not grow and expend all the stored energy before the chop.Let it photosynthesize a bit full of leaves and it be happy enough for a chop

 

[bonsaichile]

I would hack it back and wait for backbuds.
Me personally like the chop back to stump option as long as it is growing healthily and leaves have been feeding the tree a while.If they just sprouted I would give it awhile with low nitrogen feed so it does not grow and expend all the stored energy before the chop.Let it photosynthesize a bit full of leaves and it be happy enough for a chop

but these things are such sliw growers that a trunk chop will set back OP years. I dont see ant advantage in that. Trunk chop is not always the solution. What this tree needs is not a chop but the judicious use of clip and grow to rebuild the canopy.

 

[Kanorin]

I would hack it back and wait for backbuds.
Me personally like the chop back to stump option as long as it is growing healthily and leaves have been feeding the tree a while.If they just sprouted I would give it awhile with low nitrogen feed so it does not grow and expend all the stored energy before the chop.Let it photosynthesize a bit full of leaves and it be happy enough for a chop

I appreciate your suggestion and suspect that this option is likely to make the best bonsai 10-15 years from now, but from this little hokkaido I think I'd enjoy something that will make me smile and something that I can show my neighbors and friends in a year or two. Something that people who aren't already into bonsai might enjoy.

On that note, I think I realized that the rear might actually make the better front. Here it is, trunk-fingers outlined.

 

[Kanorin]

Going for a eerie looking hand-clump. We’ll see how it responds to this pruning. Can always change course if it’s not to my liking.

 

[ConorDash]

Going for a eerie looking hand-clump. We’ll see how it responds to this pruning. Can always change course if it’s not to my liking.

May I suggest this:

Kiyonal Cut Paste Sealer

Come and visit the North East's Largest Bonsai Nursery.

www.nebonsai.com

Not necessarily from that website, but most places sell that same stuff... Its a very commonly used, much lighter paste. That sealant you are using, I also have but I tend to use and see it used on heavier bigger cuts. I would use the Kyonal on most everything else. Much easier to apply and thinner, more flexible.

It is very well known and liked, among those who believe in wound sealant of course..

 

[Cadillactaste]

Study clumps...you will admire this one for the naturalistic feel it will bring as you continue to develop it. It's got great potential.

 

[Forsoothe!]

This could have been a cute little bonsai and a learning tool where the OP would trim dead and dying and sort of manage the growth in a tree like form, but it has been mucked up to the point where the potential that was there ain't there any more and what's left couldn't be designed into something bonsai-like by John Naka.

Drastic changes by greenhorns is nonsense, and coaching greenhorns to make great leaps into a 20 year future is not in the interest of the greenhorn or bonsai the art. It is now too late to do anything productive. Not every tree can or should be made into a superlative world champion. Not every bonsai greenhorn should be coached to go for the big one. Just the opposite. Restraint needs to be practiced by all parties. The worst thing that can happen for bonsai the art is for greenhorns to flop straight out of the gate. Disappointment breeds abandonment.

 

[JoeR]

I like the multi trunk as others have said.

Add a tourniquet now where you you want to ground layer- which I highly recommend doing. Then either layer now or wait until spring, your call- whatever is most comfortable.

I would also prune the outside trunks shorter- as a beginner its often the tendency to go 'easy' on trees, but once you learn the lesson that this only slows progress you will be much happier with your trees. If you chop lower, you will add interest and taper. Currently, the three trunks are similar in diameter and movement. I have many trees I regretted not chopping sooner- trying to save you the time it takes to learn this lesson

Seiju!

This is a very small seiju elm that came a few days ago from Plantcitybonsai.com. With this tree I see two possible options: 1) Put in the ground and trunk chop after year 3 or so, depending. 2) Create a naturalistic literati style tree by a big cutback and some bending. I took some cuttings...

www.bonsainut.com

This is one of 6 mame-shohin I've made from this hilariously dopey stock.

 

[JoeR]

oh, and be careful with escape branches- they like to drop old branches in favor of young vigorous ones. I allowed the escape to run too large on the one pictured, and as a result it abandoned the lowest branch on the right.

 

[M. Frary]

This tree looks like it's a seiju.
The leaves are too large for Hokkaido.

 

[Kanorin]

Add a tourniquet now where you you want to ground layer- which I highly recommend doing. Then either layer now or wait until spring, your call- whatever is most comfortable.

Even if I want to ground layer next spring, I should put the tourniquet on now? I've never done a ground layer, but attempting my first air layer on a maple this year.

Is this more in the range of where to put the trunk chops to create a bit more asymmetry in the 3 main trunks?

This tree looks like it's a seiju.
The leaves are too large for Hokkaido.

Maybe, or maybe my close-up shots are making it hard to put to scale. It came well-labeled from Iseli nursery.