Ulmus Pole to Dos.

[ConorDash]

Just to give illustration to my messages. By no means is this a "look what I have done by ground growing, I am right, you are wrong". That'd be stupid and immature!
This is the top half, air layered off, of my original mallsai, first bonsai I ever owned. The first pic, I planted it in the ground in July 2018. Its been less than 2 years, and this is what it is now.






Thats a 7ft CE. Its been pushed up like that as my bench is now in front of it. So potentially will slow growth a little but the top will get sun.
If I hadn't grown grown it, I would still be looking at a 1" peewee (in addition to the other 1" peewee of mine... before someone else says it!) and be completely unexcited about working on it..
As it stands, very excited!

 

[sorce]

2 steps back is m

Pulling a tree up every so often is "2 steps back". I say 2, but ..it depends. Of course!

For one, it negates 1/3 the purpose of being in the ground in the first place.

I reckon if you let it go you will save mad years. More years than the couple it will take to get a new set of roots the right size and strength.

The majority still use airlayer for propogation only. Our minds haven't explored it's other values.
I know this cuz people still don't use methods like my RadialDisk to start BONSAI. They are using propogation methods for vegetables!

We have a long way to go!

Eh eh eh ...so the time actually....

There's that old saying, that we don't hear much anymore, that on the third year ground trees grow well. If we are root pruning at 2 or 3 years.... how is that true, or helping us? It can't!

That's why I believe root pruning as opposed to just layering off later, ground trees is 2 steps back.
Growth gets exponentially better every year in the ground. Without root pruning, this is greater...
All that trunk...with no root pruning at all, can be layered and babied into a great nebari in a couple years.

For some reason, likely sentimental again, we think we have to keep the roots it has.

Fuck those roots!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

My Brother! @ConorDash !

I knew from the beginning your character, and that you don't mean...."looky looky"! Because of how you came on this crazy hunt for information. A hunger no one can satiate.

Funny you bring up CE...because earlier, I thought, the one tree I know can go I'm the ground with no worry, is elm.

It, for me, is on the far end of the can be grounded spectrum, since you can hack it to nothing and it can come back. Easy to layer...ahem! Etc..

Bitching growth! Enough so to be like...hey look what I grew! Lol!

Tell me more!

Sorce

 

[ConorDash]

Pulling a tree up every so often is "2 steps back". I say 2, but ..it depends. Of course!

For one, it negates 1/3 the purpose of being in the ground in the first place.

I reckon if you let it go you will save mad years. More years than the couple it will take to get a new set of roots the right size and strength.

The majority still use airlayer for propogation only. Our minds haven't explored it's other values.
I know this cuz people still don't use methods like my RadialDisk to start BONSAI. They are using propogation methods for vegetables!

We have a long way to go!

Eh eh eh ...so the time actually....

There's that old saying, that we don't hear much anymore, that on the third year ground trees grow well. If we are root pruning at 2 or 3 years.... how is that true, or helping us? It can't!

That's why I believe root pruning as opposed to just layering off later, ground trees is 2 steps back.
Growth gets exponentially better every year in the ground. Without root pruning, this is greater...
All that trunk...with no root pruning at all, can be layered and babied into a great nebari in a couple years.

For some reason, likely sentimental again, we think we have to keep the roots it has.

Fuck those roots!

Sorce

Ahh... No no, a misunderstanding, i said "Then I can give the roots a good sorting out, put in a good sized training pot. 2 more years, repot again perhaps ". As in, once it has been lifted from the ground and in a pot, then 2 more years and ill give the roots a 2nd sorting out. I would lift out of the ground when in it, as I have not. Totally agree, if I was to mess with the roots when in the ground, it completely negates the fact I put it in the ground!

My Brother! @ConorDash !

I knew from the beginning your character, and that you don't mean...."looky looky"! Because of how you came on this crazy hunt for information. A hunger no one can satiate.

Funny you bring up CE...because earlier, I thought, the one tree I know can go I'm the ground with no worry, is elm.

It, for me, is on the far end of the can be grounded spectrum, since you can hack it to nothing and it can come back. Easy to layer...ahem! Etc..

Bitching growth! Enough so to be like...hey look what I grew! Lol!

Tell me more!

Sorce

Lol, thank you. Yes we both love an Elm. Its where most of us start. Yeh its grown well, honestly. But I know as every year goes on, it'll only grow exponentially.. So at the moment, I am letting grow for this year. Thinking of working on it end of this year, if its big enough.. but I worry, if it will ever be big enough! It'll only get bigger and more monster like.. every year I won't want to work it cos next year it'll be better.. but i have to work on it sometime!
And to think, this thing hasn't been fertilised.. at all! I put organic pellets on my trees in pots, and water with a chemical feed on every watering. Its done well. Certainly. Im looking forward to the next few years with it.

Whats the oldest CE that you have? (oldest as in, you have had for longest)

 

[sorce]

Then I can give the roots a good sorting out, put in a good sized training pot.

I'm with you. I was just continuing on my rant to someone with no plan!

I only have 3 Siberian Elm and 1 American, I reckon my Winged elm from the south kicked it this winter.

I still want to get a good English elm, cuz I still think they have the most attractive leaves. I've snagged a few cuttings that never took, then haven't been back to that ballpark again. We don't have many about.

This thread! And My Ulmus Favoritus (Siberian) are the only 2 I have had since, the "beginning". Oh and a couple ficus.

Everything else is from after I decided not to kill anything anymore, that point where some actual patience kicked in.

I'll tell ya .. having these threads to look at and kick myself in the balls for helps a lot!

Sorce

 

[ConorDash]

I'm with you. I was just continuing on my rant to someone with no plan!

I only have 3 Siberian Elm and 1 American, I reckon my Winged elm from the south kicked it this winter.

I still want to get a good English elm, cuz I still think they have the most attractive leaves. I've snagged a few cuttings that never took, then haven't been back to that ballpark again. We don't have many about.

This thread! And My Ulmus Favoritus (Siberian) are the only 2 I have had since, the "beginning". Oh and a couple ficus.

Everything else is from after I decided not to kill anything anymore, that point where some actual patience kicked in.

I'll tell ya .. having these threads to look at and kick myself in the balls for helps a lot!

Sorce

Elms are quite common here I guess! Difficult not to find an Elm or Hornbeam.

 

[sorce]

Doing this. That most recent voodoo book we saw said the day after the full moon for trees. Be today. You know what I'm hearing? The sound of left over fireworks.



Morce.

 

[sorce]

Slice the bottom off, slice the sides, till it fits. Teased a little out all around.

Have a look at what fine fine roots the DE has made.
I floated off old roots and used the same DE for the new pot.
It's like my kids at McDonald's....fryable! Lol.



Not worried at all.

And it's 90-95F all week with no rain.

Hose.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Note....I have had about 2 leaves on about 4, maybe 6 shoots that recently started again.

It seems my dormancy started right after I defoiled this. Actually feels like the defoil triggered Dormancy.

I was glad to get this done so soon after the leaves start growing again. I want all this thought to go into what is left. Tree thought. Energy.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Already got some good bud movement on this.
The one shoot of new growth that was left hasn't shriveled in these 90's.

Feels good.


Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Without seeming critical, may I inquire as to how long you're going fool around beating this dead horse until you make a serious attempt to have it show-displayable? Are you going to wait until it has a bad winter or bad summer or earthquake, wind or fire takes it and then complain that Karma has intervened because of your checkered history? Time to shit or get off the pot. I'm just sayin'

 

[sorce]

complain that Karma has intervened because of your checkered history?

What does this even mean?

To know Karma is to know there is no complaining about it.

I'm not playing checkers, have been learning to play chess.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Found one root 2 days ago.
More today.








Win.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

No doubt now.





None.

And as soon as it goes on the ground in fall, it enters the network.

Do you think moss grows in sidewalk cracks for itself, or to allow a connection of the Network?
The shallow connections.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

Have a look at what fine fine roots the DE has made.
I floated off old roots and used the same DE for the new pot.

Whaaaat! You do not use proper Japanese Mud Kernels ? That is impossible! Trees die in DE

may I inquire as to how long you're going fool around beating this dead horse until you make a serious attempt to have it show-displayable?

For some people, show ready is more than a pretty silhouette and no taper.

 

[sorce]

This drooped yesterday, I watered late.

Came back.


I was frightened for a minute, that this aftercare misstep was going to Eff up my summer Repot standing. Didn't! Woot!

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

congrats!

 

[sorce]

congrats!

Thanks. Sincerely!

After doing everything "right" for so long and losing so many good (sentimental) elms, I am too fricking happy to have this door open. Finally!

aaahhhhhhh!

What's ten years anyway Right!?!

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

What's ten years anyway Right!?!

Wont even be retired yet in ten years. So it is nothing. Gone in the blink of an eye!
Hm.. Not even been doing bonsai for ten years..

 

[sorce]

This drooped yesterday, I watered late.

Came back.

@Clicio this is the thread about pests and causes.

In watching this, I became certain that we also have all the data here on bonsainut necessary to understand what faults attract what pests. Like, certain chemical signals are read by certain pests, which is what leads to infestations. We just need to write the programs to extrapolate the data.

Here is the chain of events.

Summer repot. Fine.
Watered late, it came back, but not back back, my buds haulted, this makes sense, it read a drought, so it stopped growing.
I believe this period of dry sent a signal to whatever pests infested it(softer tissue easier to get to), which likely added to the time the buds were going to remain inactive, which extends the time of distress signals being scent, yes... scent! Sent. Via Scent!
Which makes the infestation Exponential.

What is KEY to me is, had I not realized I watered late, which is easily possible, I could have thought it was the summer repot that made it halt. I would have thought it was the summer repot that caused the pests. I would have been LOST!

This fits well into your recent watering thread eh?!

That water mishap was July31st, my buds just started to show green again in Sept., one full month after the water mishap! What a quick waste of great time!

Note, all my apical buds died or quit.
Note, gripping a branch and stripping elm leaves from base to tip as they teach, removes the apical bud. (see Defoliation 101)

I decided I had enough time for this growth to sustain and maintain until Dormant, and since defoil would guarantee my pest removal in total, I opted for full defoil now. I wish I wouldn't have missed that one fucking watering!



Pests, Scale? Thrips? I had ants. Ants led me to the problem, Thanks ants!


Peep this! Shoot off a root! I left it since the ants weren't privy to it yet!







So now I lost tons of time. For one damn late water.

This is the kind of stuff we miss so often, and blame summer repotting!

Sorce