Umbrella Pine as bonsai?

brewmeister83

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So there's a plant sale going on this weekend near where I live and they have a few nice looking Japanese Umbrella Pines (Sciadopitys verticillata) sorry no pics. I was wondering, before I pick one up, since it's not really a true pine if anyone has had experience growing these for bonsai? Are they even good for bonsai cultivation?
 

brewmeister83

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Wow, really? No one has ever heard of these as bonsai material? Well, either I have a nice little experiment or a lot of headaches on my hands if I get one. So waddaya' think people, should I get one and record its progress?
 

jk_lewis

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I don't know anything about this plant, but if you Google "Sciadopitys verticillata bonsai" you will find some pictures and will dicover thet "Bonsai Boy of NY" sells them -- which is NOT a recommendation.
 

brewmeister83

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Argggg... Went back to the sale and all of the one gallon pots were already gone :( Undeterred, I stopped by a local nursery that I knew might have them, and they did - but they were the five gallon size, so I really couldn't justify $180 for an experimental plant I could inadvertently kill. Plus, I noticed they were pretty rootbound and had some dense growth, but the needle size hadn't reduced at all - Maybe that's why I couldn't find anything about them as bonsai on the internet. I guess I'll wait till next year's plant sale and see if they have them again, but for the time being I'll save my money for other plants that I know how to grow.
 

TheSteve

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Spend the year reading about them. Surely there's something out about them as landscape trees at least.
 

CapeCodBonsai

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Wow, really? No one has ever heard of these as bonsai material? Well, either I have a nice little experiment or a lot of headaches on my hands if I get one. So waddaya' think people, should I get one and record its progress?
This is a very old thread but, I was wondering if anyone has done any experimentation since the initial posting. I have sprouted about 150 seedlings and thought I might try to bonsai a few of them. My guess is they make poor “classic” bonsai material or the Japanese would’ve been showing them off long ago. I know this is an EXTREMELY slow growing tree but, I’d still like to try a few as bonsai. It’s unlikely I will ever see a thick-trunked, mature looking tree. I figure if I ease up on my daily beer intake and limit the microwaveable burrito consumption, I might get to see 20 years of progress (which is good enough for me). Any personal advice or experiences with keeping this species alive in a pot and/or compaction techniques would be greatly appreciated.
 

TN_Jim

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This is a very old thread but, I was wondering if anyone has done any experimentation since the initial posting. I have sprouted about 150 seedlings and thought I might try to bonsai a few of them. My guess is they make poor “classic” bonsai material or the Japanese would’ve been showing them off long ago. I know this is an EXTREMELY slow growing tree but, I’d still like to try a few as bonsai. It’s unlikely I will ever see a thick-trunked, mature looking tree. I figure if I ease up on my daily beer intake and limit the microwaveable burrito consumption, I might get to see 20 years of progress (which is good enough for me). Any personal advice or experiences with keeping this species alive in a pot and/or compaction techniques would be greatly appreciated.
This species is fascinating thanks much! Wow..odd.
What do those sprouts look like? Burrito Brothers
 

penumbra

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I have 4 of them. They are all small and one is somewhat being trained. You are right, it is difficult to make a classic bonsai from one. But fortunately they are just an awesome plant to grow nonetheless. Years ago I had one about 18 inches tall but I killed it by overworking it. I have one in the ground I planted 30 years ago. It is about 24 feet tall I think.
TN Jim, where did you get the seeds. They are notoriously difficult from seed and even more so from cuttings. I remember trying to root a few cuttings many years ago and they stayed green almost a year and developed great callus but no roots.
 

TN_Jim

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I have 4 of them. They are all small and one is somewhat being trained. You are right, it is difficult to make a classic bonsai from one. But fortunately they are just an awesome plant to grow nonetheless. Years ago I had one about 18 inches tall but I killed it by overworking it. I have one in the ground I planted 30 years ago. It is about 24 feet tall I think.
TN Jim, where did you get the seeds. They are notoriously difficult from seed and even more so from cuttings. I remember trying to root a few cuttings many years ago and they stayed green almost a year and developed great callus but no roots.
That was @CapeCodBonsai
I’ve never heard or seen this one before. Single family/species..something there
 

CapeCodBonsai

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I have 4 of them. They are all small and one is somewhat being trained. You are right, it is difficult to make a classic bonsai from one. But fortunately they are just an awesome plant to grow nonetheless. Years ago I had one about 18 inches tall but I killed it by overworking it. I have one in the ground I planted 30 years ago. It is about 24 feet tall I think.
TN Jim, where did you get the seeds. They are notoriously difficult from seed and even more so from cuttings. I remember trying to root a few cuttings many years ago and they stayed green almost a year and developed great callus but no roots.
I’m the guy with the sprouted seedlings. Believe it or not, I have also successfully rooted cuttings. I had always heard/read the same things about propagating Sciadopitys Verticillata and my first attempt at germinating seed proved that to be true. I tried different techniques for over a nine month period with seed I had collected from a VERY large and healthy tree a friend has in his landscape. The tree produced a tremendous amount of fat seed that was easily shaken from mature and open, second-year cones. I asked him if he ever noticed seedlings popping up around the tree but, he hadn’t. Seeing my luck with germinating the seed, I asked him if I could take a few inconspicuous cuttings. 50% withered but 50% of them rooted! I was satisfied with the few rooted cuttings and didn’t feel the need to propagate any more of this particular species since my attention had shifted to bonsai and more suitable species.
This spring, I drove by a home in my area and slowed to a stop when I noticed It had 20 to 30 umbrella pines planted around the perimeter of the property. I was waved over by the owner and during our discussion she offered me a couple of (free) trees that were dying due to overcrowding if I was willing to dig them up (which I did). Just for shits and giggles I shook some seed out of the mature cones on her trees and threw them into some growing medium without any attempts at scarification or stratification. I was so damn excited when a few actually popped several months later. I had the initial few but, everything else stayed dormant. Then a couple of weeks ago . . . kaboom! 90% of the seed threw out out a tap root and cotyledons! Still, none of the seed collected from my buddy’s tree has sprouted despite his tree looking so much healthier than the trees the local lady has.
 

CapeCodBonsai

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That is astounding. I have never collected a fertile seed. If I can ask, what time of year did you root your cuttings?

I tried (and failed) all winter to get the seed going so, I believe I went back in March/April to take the cuttings. I read somewhere that Umbrella Pines produce a latex like substance that will inhibit root formation so, I soaked the cut ends in a vase of water (changed out daily) for several days before sticking them in a sterile medium.
FYI: I also read that you will have more success rooting cuttings from younger trees. I must’ve been lucky because, we estimated my buddies mature tree to be approximately 50-70 years old based on the size of the tree and age of his house.
 

penumbra

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I tried (and failed) all winter to get the seed going so, I believe I went back in March/April to take the cuttings. I read somewhere that Umbrella Pines produce a latex like substance that will inhibit root formation so, I soaked the cut ends in a vase of water (changed out daily) for several days before sticking them in a sterile medium.
FYI: I also read that you will have more success rooting cuttings from younger trees. I must’ve been lucky because, we estimated my buddies mature tree to be approximately 50-70 years old based on the size of the tree and age of his house.
I knew about soaking them, but I think I did it for only a day. I will try again this winter. Thank you.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Wow, really? No one has ever heard of these as bonsai material? Well, either I have a nice little experiment or a lot of headaches on my hands if I get one. So waddaya' think people, should I get one and record its progress?

I actually had to look them up by their species name :) I don't believe I have ever seen them! They look quite interesting, but they are certainly not common here on the West Coast.
 

CapeCodBonsai

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I actually had to look them up by their species name :) I don't believe I have ever seen them! They look quite interesting, but they are certainly not common here on the West Coast.
Their slow growth and the difficulties encountered in propagation make them relatively rare in the US although, I have been seeing a few trees in the local nurseries the past few years. They are fairly expensive for a small landscape tree $100-$250. If you want a big one, get out the checkbook!
They are really cool (dinosaur) trees. Remember the amber headed cane in the movie Jurassic Park containing the mosquito that started it all? They think that type of Amber was formed from the sap of these trees. When you see their foliage up close it looks artificial (plastic). I understand that it isn’t even made of proper leaf material but, a modified stem structure. I’ve read that they will survive well as a potted tree (much like a Dwarf Alberta Spruce).
I’m adding a baby picture. You can find plenty of photographs of grown specimens by googling.
If anyone is interested, I’d love to swap seedlings with other individuals who have species that work well for bonsai.
 

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I saw this little fella this past spring at a greenhouse that gets various little pre bonsai junipers and pines and there was this odd looking tree I had to buy. He hung out on my lilttle fish pond rock waterfall for the summer. It threw that branch out on the left and the other branches grew a smidge this summer but it didn’t grow in height. I’m hoping it overwinters well so I can see what it does next year.
I’d love a 4-5’ one in the landscape but as it was mentioned they are expensive!!
 

penumbra

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They are a challenge but they are such lovely plants, don't give up. One of mine in the ground unexpectedly died this summer. The 2 others planted next to it did fine.
 
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