Ume flower bud question

junmilo

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Good Day and Happy Holidays.

Have a question about Ume flower buds. I have these few ume, where their flower buds somehow dries up and falls off. But overall the plant is healthy with healthy root system...etc..posted some pictures here..

Is this fungus issue or just not enough energy?

Thanks

J20201211_085749.jpg20201211_085643.jpg
 

Bonsai Nut

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I don't have much experience with ume - I struggled to keep them alive in Southern California. I don't think I was able to provide enough cold.

However the first obvious question is: where are you keeping them? I don't think Toronto has gotten cold enough yet to damage stone fruit flower buds, but "Ontario" is a pretty big place, and depending how north you are you may have seen some colder temps. If you live in Fort Severn, you may have frozen your tree :)
 

junmilo

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I don't have much experience with ume - I struggled to keep them alive in Southern California. I don't think I was able to provide enough cold.

However the first obvious question is: where are you keeping them? I don't think Toronto has gotten cold enough yet to damage stone fruit flower buds, but "Ontario" is a pretty big place, and depending how north you are you may have seen some colder temps. If you live in Fort Severn, you may have frozen your tree :)
I'm just a bit north of Toronto....not cold enough....night time is -5 Celsius...day time hovering around +5 Celsius...

The other umes that I have are all doing well..just a few of them.

Kinda of strange, maybe its not strong enough.
 

Bonsai Nut

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I'm just a bit north of Toronto....not cold enough....night time is -5 Celsius...day time hovering around +5 Celsius...

The other umes that I have are all doing well..just a few of them.

Kinda of strange, maybe its not strong enough.

I'm going to bow out and wait for people with more ume experience to hopefully comment. :) Perhaps @Brian Van Fleet ?
 

junmilo

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The photo shows a tree with relatively little current year's growth. Suggesting that it was not a vigorous growing season. My speculation is the tree simply doesn't have the energy to support flowering this upcoming spring.
I believe so too, but the brown patch...
 

junmilo

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Couldn't this be because the branches are woodening up, then turn from green to brown?
Could be, however when I compare with the other ume that I have, none are developing these patches...except for couple of the trees.
 

LeoMame

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Could be, however when I compare with the other ume that I have, none are developing these patches...except for couple of the trees.
mine has few green, newer twigs that are browning on some of the junctions, like yours.

I feel it's more about the wood hardening and turning darker rather than a fungus: I believe this as my ume passed a very easy growing season (apart for being potted in a unsuitable, muddy soil, and I had to water it very carefully), lots of fruit and now is full of flower buds.

But I have not much experience with bonsai, especially in diagnosing patogens/infestations, so I'm just sharing my experience and hope that your tree is fine!
 

63pmp

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Is it possible that the potting mix is retaining too much water? Disease tends to pick on weak trees, the usual cause is waterlogging of the potting mix.
 

AlainK

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Couldn't this be because the branches are woodening up, then turn from green to brown?

This is my guess too. Here, the Autumn is very mild, which can become a problem later in winter : here is a picture of an Ume in the ground, the buds are about to open. If there's some frost, no, or very few flowers in January. You will notice the brown area at the base of some twigs, so to me it's just normal aging of the bark :

ume03_201213a.jpg
 

junmilo

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This is my guess too. Here, the Autumn is very mild, which can become a problem later in winter : here is a picture of an Ume in the ground, the buds are about to open. If there's some frost, no, or very few flowers in January. You will notice the brown area at the base of some twigs, so to me it's just normal aging of the bark :

View attachment 344146
Yes, I hope as well. Are you able to take a closer photo of the browning?

Also, your ume flower buds are not drying up. These ones are drying up and falling off...
 

AlainK

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Yes, I hope as well. Are you able to take a closer photo of the browning?

It's raining again ! Maybe tomorrow.

For the flowers, I read too fast. If they abort before opening, then (once again) I'd say : soil/roots problem. Probably too wet.

In an old magazine, I read an article translated from a Japanese publication. It said that the nursery man mentioned in the article would put back his Ume back into the soil every 3/4 years to help them maintain some vigor. But as far as I can remember, the photos were of very old, big ones with dead wood.
 

Adair M

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Ume is tricky. I let my Ume grow long extensions over the summer to build energy. Trying to “pinch them back” or cutting back to a Silohette will often suppress their flower production.

I have a friend who has a beautiful Ume. In the summer. I asked him, “what color are the flowers?”. He said, “I don’t know, it’s never bloomed”.

Well, it’s because he kept it trimmed back, never letting the stems grow out and get strong.

My technique is to let it grow in the spring, and fertilize heavily. Around the middle of May, once the new shoots have grown out 18 inches or so, cut back to half the new growth. Remove the first two leaves on each stem. And wire, paying particular attention to the first couple inches. The timing is important. Do it while the branch still is flexible enough to bend. (So, mid-May for me, your mileage may vary). Continue to fertilize. Over the summer the leaves will curl. They’ll look like they’re drying up, and are in need of water. They’re not, that’s just what they do if the tree is making flower buds. If the leaves stay flat and pretty, no flowers. The tree is rather unattractive. It gets hidden in the back of the garden, lol. In fall, remove the leaves. At that time, I can see the flower buds, and I might cut back some more. (I know I’m removing flowers when I do this! Ugh! So, I usually keep it leggy because I like the flowers.). In the dead of winter, it blooms! For two weeks, it’s the most beautiful thing in my garden! After it blooms, I cut back. Hard. Back to where I pulled off those leaves. The buds there are vegetative buds, and will grow shoots. And the cycle repeats.

My tree is pretty ugly during the spring, summer, and fall. But when it blooms in winter, OMG!

So, I told my friend my routine. He said, “I can’t do that”. “Why, not?” “Because I want my tree to look good in summer.” I told him, ”Dude, that’s what maples are for!”

Everyone’s different. LOL!!!
 
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LeoMame

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Ume is tricky. I let my Ume grow long extensions over the summer to build energy. Trying to “pinch them back” or cutting back to a Silohette will often suppress their flower production.

I have a friend who has a beautiful Ume. In the summer. I asked him, “what color are the flowers?”. He said, “I don’t know, it’s never bloomed”.

Well, it’s because he kept it trimmed back, never letting the stems grow out and get strong.

My technique is to let it grow in the spring, and fertilize heavily. Around the middle of May, once the new shoots have grown out 18 inches or so, cut back to half the new growth. Remove the first two leaves on each stem. And wire, paying particular attention to the first couple inches. The timing is important. Do it while the branch still is flexible enough to bend. (So, mid-May for me, your mileage may vary). Continue to fertilize. Over the summer the leaves will curl. They’ll look like they’re drying up, and are in need of water. They’re not, that’s just what they do if the tree is making flower buds. If the leaves stay flat and pretty, no flowers. The tree is rather unattractive. It gets hidden in the back of the garden, lol. In fall, remove the leaves. At that time, I can see the flower buds, and I might cut back some more. (I know I’m removing flowers when I do this! Ugh! So, I usually keep it leggy because I like the flowers.). In the dead of winter, it blooms! For two weeks, it’s the most beautiful thing in my garden! After it blooms, I cut back. Hard. Back to where I pulled off those leaves. The buds there are vegetative buds, and will grow shoots. And the cycle repeats.

My tree is pretty ugly during the spring, summer, and fall. But when it blooms in winter, OMG!

So, I told my friend my routine. He said, “I can’t do that”. “Why, not?” “Because I want my tree to look good in summer.” I told him, ”Dude, that’s what maples are for!”

Everyone’s different. LOL!!!
What about the technique suggested by Bjorn, he defoliates most of the outer canopy leaving only the inner leaves. And I've read from you and from other sources to cut ONLY those first, inner leaves, leaving the rest intact. Sounds like two opposing approaches? Or am I missing something here?

Btw, completely agree on flower priority, mine now has several straight and leggy branches which I'll terminate after the show in winter!
 

junmilo

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It's raining again ! Maybe tomorrow.

For the flowers, I read too fast. If they abort before opening, then (once again) I'd say : soil/roots problem. Probably too wet.

In an old magazine, I read an article translated from a Japanese publication. It said that the nursery man mentioned in the article would put back his Ume back into the soil every 3/4 years to help them maintain some vigor. But as far as I can remember, the photos were of very old, big ones with dead wood.
Thank you.

I did check their roots...healthy and new growth...

I guess I'll wait and see if these guys survive the winter...if not, sure will miss their red flowers..attached photo.
 

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junmilo

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Ume is tricky. I let my Ume grow long extensions over the summer to build energy. Trying to “pinch them back” or cutting back to a Silohette will often suppress their flower production.

I have a friend who has a beautiful Ume. In the summer. I asked him, “what color are the flowers?”. He said, “I don’t know, it’s never bloomed”.

Well, it’s because he kept it trimmed back, never letting the stems grow out and get strong.

My technique is to let it grow in the spring, and fertilize heavily. Around the middle of May, once the new shoots have grown out 18 inches or so, cut back to half the new growth. Remove the first two leaves on each stem. And wire, paying particular attention to the first couple inches. The timing is important. Do it while the branch still is flexible enough to bend. (So, mid-May for me, your mileage may vary). Continue to fertilize. Over the summer the leaves will curl. They’ll look like they’re drying up, and are in need of water. They’re not, that’s just what they do if the tree is making flower buds. If the leaves stay flat and pretty, no flowers. The tree is rather unattractive. It gets hidden in the back of the garden, lol. In fall, remove the leaves. At that time, I can see the flower buds, and I might cut back some more. (I know I’m removing flowers when I do this! Ugh! So, I usually keep it leggy because I like the flowers.). In the dead of winter, it blooms! For two weeks, it’s the most beautiful thing in my garden! After it blooms, I cut back. Hard. Back to where I pulled off those leaves. The buds there are vegetative buds, and will grow shoots. And the cycle repeats.

My tree is pretty ugly during the spring, summer, and fall. But when it blooms in winter, OMG!

So, I told my friend my routine. He said, “I can’t do that”. “Why, not?” “Because I want my tree to look good in summer.” I told him, ”Dude, that’s what maples are for!”

Everyone’s different. LOL!!!
The ones in question did not grow that much this spring/summer...maybe thats why....who knows.
 
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