undiscovered native US trees?
- Thread starter Graydon
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bonsai barry
Omono
Chortle snort
Yeah, I expect a rash of replies to my suggestion.
You know the old saying, "Leaves of three, a bonsai be!"
I must agree with Behr and Bonsai_Outlaw, they have incredible ramification. I just got several and i am looking forward to working on them this spring. But i do not understand why this tree does not get the attention that it deserves as it seems to have similar if not better characteristics to Chinese Elm.
zelk
zelk
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
The problem with native Maples is their resistance to bonsai culture. They are very difficult to force internode reduction and leaf size reduction. As to their fall color I agree, they are beautiful.
Dwight
Chumono
Pinon pine ?
I have heard or seen discussion as to the promise of Acer rubrum 'drummondii' as bonsai. I have seen this maple in Florida on my walks thru the Ocala National Forest. There are not a lot of them, mostly occurring near bodies of water. The internodes do seem to be a bit closer than typical maples. I have considered trying to layer off a branch but I have no idea how to keep the moss moist while doing so. Fantastic bark on the wild specimens.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I have seen a number of nice pinon posted on other sites from time to time. It is a good tree.
The problem as I see it is that so few really good bonsaists of reputation seem to be willing to stick their necks out and bring this native material to the forefront. Notable exceptions would be Nick Lentz and the Eastern Larch, and Mary Schmalenberg with the Pitch Pine. I know there are others but the fact I cannot bring them to recall without looking them up in the literature proves my point.
There are two other trees I would dearly love to see, one is the Bristle Cone Pine. There should be a lot of these trees but those who boast they have them somehow refuse to post pictures of the same. The other is the White Bark Pine. This is another five needle Pine from the Western mountains. I know of no one who has one cultivated or collected.
BONSAI_OUTLAW
Banned
Malhomme informed me that I should look into Mayhaw's aka Crataegus opaca as there are many in my area and make fine bonsai. I found one back in the summer and dug it up today. Lovely little tree.
Greg Brenden
Mame
I take exception (once again) with your statement about collected manzanita. I will try to post a pic with this reply of a tree that was shown at the 2004 Bay Island Bonsai Exhibit of Fine Bonsai. I collected this tree in the fall of 2002, sold it Labor Day of 2003 and it was shown in January of 2004. This tree has a 5" diameter trunk at its base and is over 4' wide. It is featured in an interview Tom Kelly did with me in the Sept./Oct. Golden Statements magazine. There are several other pictures of trees I've collected in that article as well. Tom showed that tree again this winter, BTW.
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Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Greg, you need to read Vance's post again. I think the two of you are in violent agreement - he says Manzanita has potential, but he hasn't seen any with the old deadwood. Not sure how you can take exception to the fact he hasn't seen any, unless you two are closer than I think you are
I have also seen some amazing Manzanita up in the mountains - especially along ridges and passes in low ranges of about 3000 feet elevation. The live veins contrast so strongly with the deadwood they look like they have red and white stripes. My concern with the tree is the ability to move any of the established wood - it is so incredibly hard. However that may not be an issue if there is so much good foundation material to work with.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Greg, you need to read Vance's post again. I think the two of you are in violent agreement - he says Manzanita has potential, but he hasn't seen any with the old deadwood. Not sure how you can take exception to the fact he hasn't seen any, unless you two are closer than I think you are
I have also seen some amazing Manzanita up in the mountains - especially along ridges and passes in low ranges of about 3000 feet elevation. The live veins contrast so strongly with the deadwood they look like they have red and white stripes. My concern with the tree is the ability to move any of the established wood - it is so incredibly hard. However that may not be an issue if there is so much good foundation material to work with.
This is exactly the kind of material I was referring to. The kind of stuff that looks like Kimura went into the mountains and styled a bunch of these guys. I have not seen any of these trees successfully collected. You have no idea how much I would love to be wrong about these trees. For many years I have talked to people who have tried, I tried once myself forty years or so ago, my mentor tried and many even named bonsai people have tried. None have been successful. If you have cracked this nut I would applaud you for your accomplishment.
Manzanita like you refer to Vance are all over Southern Oregon where I grew up. I have known a few people who tried to collect them and none survived more than a year. I recently spoke to a woman down there who is rooting cuttings and has collected them. She has had limited success and told me that it is very typical for a manzanita that is 6" tall to have a 3ft tap root. Southern Oregon has a lot of granite so they grow well, twisted and lots of deadwood...... Now if they were only collectable....
Jason
Jason
rlist
Shohin
Collectible is easy - survival is the hard part...
I collected two a few years back, and neither survived. Both had small, compact root pads and a single long and thick tap root. Both collected in spring, dead by mid summer. Both had great new root growth. My gut feeling is that my substrate stayed too wet, and in the end they just couldn't handle the moisture level. I think I will buy Greg B lunch and get is tips and tricks before I attempt it again, but I am sure it is something that I will do in the future...
I collected two a few years back, and neither survived. Both had small, compact root pads and a single long and thick tap root. Both collected in spring, dead by mid summer. Both had great new root growth. My gut feeling is that my substrate stayed too wet, and in the end they just couldn't handle the moisture level. I think I will buy Greg B lunch and get is tips and tricks before I attempt it again, but I am sure it is something that I will do in the future...
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
That's the point Jason, they can be grown from seed, cuttings and even harvested as young tree as far as I know. But----getting the really old knarled and nasty ones is nearly impossible. Notice I said nearly holding hope that I am worng
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Good luck to you both, if you can crack this puzzle you will have done a great service to bonsai.
Greg Brenden
Mame
Okay, Vance, did you enlarge the picture I posted? Did you not see the trunk rise and fall and twist the live wood and deadwood from the soil line most of the length of trunk to tip of foliage? The pot that tree is in is only 4" deep. The California crowd that saw this tree was quite impressed. To make it into the exhibit is has been in TWICE is no small feat. You are in such denial that it's possible, you can't see the forest for the tree.
And Jason--you have been to my yard; were there not several manzanitas thriving in pots there?
Rich--come out some time and see them for yourself, you're only an hour's drive, I bet.
More manzanitas...
And Jason--you have been to my yard; were there not several manzanitas thriving in pots there?
Rich--come out some time and see them for yourself, you're only an hour's drive, I bet.
More manzanitas...
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Greg Brenden
Mame
This last one is a ground layer off the tree I collected back in 2002. I'm including a shot of the tree back in 2002 one month or so after collection. Can you see the plastic bag in the center of the photo? That is where the ground layer was separated. I'm also including some details of the trunk of the tree I took.
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Greg Brenden
Mame
In my haste to post the photos, I forgot to say the first photo of the ground layer was taken in November 2006 after I had wired it for fall showing. It spent its first year in a plastic collander and grew so well, I planted it to a rock in the fall of 2003. It has been planted to this rock ever since. This tree has been in my possession for 5 years and shows no sign of decline. In fact I have rooted a cutting from it that is now a year old itself. And it is completely wired. I may just have to take a pic of that one soon too.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Greg; These are all fantastic shots. Since so many people seem to have trouble with manzanitas, (and I am now intrigued and thinking about going and picking one up) could you start a thread on the "Other/Misc" board to talk about manzanita care? (I don't want to hijack this thread with detailed care info). I would love to hear about your success and what tricks you have learned.
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