Unknown Kiln - help?

[thams]

Hi All,

I'm considering purchasing a pot from a nursery, but they are unsure of the kiln. It's labelled as Tokoname, but I just want to be sure I'm not investing money into something that's overpriced. Can anyone help me?

 

[rockm]

Have you tried these resources:

http://bonsaipotplaza.com/

http://japanesebonsaipots.net/chop-and-signature-resource/

 

[thams]

Have you tried these resources:

http://bonsaipotplaza.com/

http://japanesebonsaipots.net/chop-and-signature-resource/

To me it looks like a Watanabe Akira kiln stamp, but I'm not totally positive. I'm embarrassed to disclose the amount of hours I spend pouring over pots and pot signatures and stamps. It's sort of a sickness.

 

[thams]

I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger. I really love the clean look of the pot, and I have the perfect tree for it. From what I understand, his pots are relatively desirable.

If anyone has any additional info on the potter/kiln, I would love to know more.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Agreed, Mr.WATANABE Akira.
http://www.tokoname.or.jp/bonsai/maker-e.htm

Looks like a similar clay body and shape used by Bigei; though the feet on his pots tend to be cleaner/sharper.

 

[rockm]

"really love the clean look of the pot, and I have the perfect tree for it."

If it's a well-made pot and works with one of your trees, then why really worry about who made it? --- unless the seller asking a premium for the potter--which they apparently aren't since they don't know who it is...;-)

 

[thams]

If it's a well-made pot and works with one of your trees, then why really worry about who made it? --- unless the seller asking a premium for the potter--which they apparently aren't since they don't know who it is...;-)[/QUOTE]


Point taken! I just like to know about the pots I purchase is all. I'm not really a pot snob, just a curious person who's relatively new to bonsai.

I can't say the pot was cheap, but I do trust the nursery owners -- they've always treated me well.

 

[Poink88]

I think you are being smart. It is true that appeal to you and fit with your tree is important or foremost but knowing if the pot has more monetary value (as possibly an investment) is good.

Not knowing who the chop mark is for doesn't mean cheap...others (newbies like me or vendors) sometimes automatically equate having one as an indication of quality and value. Which we all know of course is not always true.

Enjoy your pot!

 

[thams]

I think you are being smart. It is true that appeal to you and fit with your tree is important or foremost but knowing if the pot has more monetary value (as possibly an investment) is good.

Not knowing who the chop mark is for doesn't mean cheap...others (newbies like me or vendors) sometimes automatically equate having one as an indication of quality and value. Which we all know of course is not always true.

Enjoy your pot!

Thanks! It's true too, signature does not always equate to value. Even more confusing, pot values of the same potter fluctuate from generation to generation. *sigh* I'll figure it out one day...

 

[GastroGnome]

True All,
Signature doesn't equate to value, unless it's one of the hundreds of stamps, signs, seals, and chops that's worth anything. My chops database tells you who a maker is, but it doesn't tell you anything about whether that maker is worth a dime. I have chops from kilns up there that are patently worthless right next to the signatures of multi-grand potters. I'd advise you, if you're interested Thams, to next time contact me directly. I rarely have time to visit here. You'll find my email on the website For Sale page. Akira Shozan pots are desirable. Not as desirable as Gyozan or some Keizan, but still high tier Tokoname. Retail prices in Japan these days are about 30% less or so than original Catalog value, unless a nice patina has developed, then 30% more than catalog.
Rockm....I often buy pots for trees and get tired of them, and I try to change out the pots on all my trees at every repot. Nothing goes back into the same pot. With this type of attitude, I tend to have pots around frequently that need to move on....it's nice to KNOW I can get more than I paid, or at least no loss for a couple of years of use. This obsession is expensive enough when you try to work to higher level than you currently reside at, wherever that may be; judicious pottery purchases are one place you can not take a loss.
Ryan
Http://JapaneseBonsaiPots.net/

 

[GastroGnome]

Nearly forgot:
Rockm, a quick glance around the market will tell you that sellers in American venues almost entirely charge a premium for "Tokoname", without knowing the kiln. A particular eBay nursery in wildcat country comes to mind. They have 4,5,800$ pots up there simply listed as Tokoname. Some of them they sell were actually worth that a decade ago, and a few still are worth that. Point: they ALL charge a premium for "Tokoname", doesn't matter If it's an f/ing toilet seat. This is utterly retarded, most Tokoname is worthless. For all you other Nuts, I suggests finding someone to help validate and verify your buys. These people can probably also get the same or better pots cheaper. Matt Ouwinga is a good source, as am I(shameless but true plug).
Ryan
Http://JapaneseBonsaiPots.net/

 

[thams]

True All,
Signature doesn't equate to value, unless it's one of the hundreds of stamps, signs, seals, and chops that's worth anything. My chops database tells you who a maker is, but it doesn't tell you anything about whether that maker is worth a dime. I have chops from kilns up there that are patently worthless right next to the signatures of multi-grand potters. I'd advise you, if you're interested Thams, to next time contact me directly. I rarely have time to visit here. You'll find my email on the website For Sale page. Akira Shozan pots are desirable. Not as desirable as Gyozan or some Keizan, but still high tier Tokoname. Retail prices in Japan these days are about 30% less or so than original Catalog value, unless a nice patina has developed, then 30% more than catalog.

Http://JapaneseBonsaiPots.net/

Ryan, I really appreciate the input. I'll definitely contact you in the future about pot purchases (I also peruse your page often - for pot purchases and posts). I'll tell you that I paid $150 for the pot, which I know is a premium mark-up. I hope I didn't overpay too much. Or if I did, then hopefully I can gain back the value with patience and patina. I searched for info about Akira Shozan pots, but didn't find much. Only that he's a master potter and that his pots are more decent than most. Keep on doin' what you do -- your website is refreshingly informative.

 

[milehigh_7]

Ryan,

It is very nice having you around. Your expertise is appreciated and I always learn things when you post. Come back often would you?