Urea to ammonia

BrianBay9

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I prefer to use ammonia based fertilizers since the nitrogen is immediately available to the trees. Urea based ferts need to be broken down by microbial action to produce ammonia and/or nitrates. BUT, urea based ferts like Miracle Grow are easier to find and usually cheaper.

So I'm taking granular Miracle Grow, dissolving in water and storing in a 15 gal container for a week or two before use. Is this likely to be useful in generating ammonia and nitrates, or am I just fooling myself? Any opinions?
 

bonhe

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It is very interesting subject. Instead of using urea, why don’t you use urine instead? Urine has all N, P, K and trace elements needed for plant growth. In Vietnam, we have been using urine in agriculture for centuries. There are some researches about the benefit of urine on plants to which you can search on the internet.
By the way, have you ever heard urine therapy or urinotherapy ?
Thụ Thoại
 

ShadyStump

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I prefer to use ammonia based fertilizers since the nitrogen is immediately available to the trees. Urea based ferts need to be broken down by microbial action to produce ammonia and/or nitrates. BUT, urea based ferts like Miracle Grow are easier to find and usually cheaper.

So I'm taking granular Miracle Grow, dissolving in water and storing in a 15 gal container for a week or two before use. Is this likely to be useful in generating ammonia and nitrates, or am I just fooling myself? Any opinions?
Unless you can ensure that the right microbiology exists in the container, you might be wasting your time.
I recommend researching just exactly what sorts of microbes you would need and see if there's an easy way to inoculate the mix with it. Given that in nature it's essentially a form of fermentation taking place, and stuff like miracle grow is generally salts of the needed nutrients, if you've ever tried fermenting food - kimchi/sauerkraut, kombucha, ginger beer and the like - you might be able to mix some of that sort of stuff in to get the effect you're looking for. Just treat it like you would making a batch of beer I suppose, but keeping it cool in stead of warm.
 

ShadyStump

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Thinking about a bit more, @bonhe might be on to something other than just changing up your source of urea.
When your cat box starts to smell of ammonia that's because the microbes present when the cat urinates are breaking down the urea into ammonia. You might just try peeing in the container to start the process off.

When I've researched methane production for fuels, I learned that you have to have it in an airtight environment. Among the first things produced when fermenting barnyard waste besides CO² is ammonia. It's not until all the oxygen in the mix is used up that it starts producing methane in useable quantities. So you may need to build a specialized set up to keep your mix oxygenated.

Even then, the microbes are generally feeding on carbohydrates of some sort, and excreting wastes that eventually produce the ammonia through chemical reactions.
You'll need to research the hell out of it to see if it'll be effective.
 

Paradox

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Good lord....
Why complicate it unnecessarily.
Just use the miracle grow as is when you mix it. It works as intended and is designed to deliver nutrients to plants. No need to store it in hope it ferments or breaks down and you dont need to pee (which is also urea) in it....lol
 

Scorpius

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Good lord....
Why complicate it unnecessarily.
Just use the miracle grow as is when you mix it. It works as intended and is designed to deliver nutrients to plants. No need to store it in hope it ferments or breaks down and you dont need to pee (which is also urea) in it....lol
Or just use something like DynaGro that has nitrate/ammonia based nitrogen that our bonsai can immediately uptake without having to wait for urea to breakdown, which it nevers does due to the frequency we water our trees.
 

ShadyStump

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Put that thinking cap on trying to get rid of/deal with this 🤬 heatwave
So you've perfected watering then? If not, worry about that. lol
The weather has managed both for me for now. Highs back down into the 80s with rain forecast every day this week.
 

BrianBay9

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Good lord....
Why complicate it unnecessarily.
Just use the miracle grow as is when you mix it. It works as intended and is designed to deliver nutrients to plants. No need to store it in hope it ferments or breaks down and you dont need to pee (which is also urea) in it....lol

Not much of complication - I have to dissolve the Miracle Grow anyway, the only question is do I wait a week or two before using it, or use it immediately?
 

mapleX

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Not much of complication - I have to dissolve the Miracle Grow anyway, the only question is do I wait a week or two before using it, or use it immediately?
Your answer is on the label...(keep it simple)Screenshot_2022-07-25-12-16-24~3.png
 

BrianBay9

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In an inorganic soil mix (like mine), fertilizers wash out quickly. If it takes a week for urea to be converted to ammonia, most of it will have already washed out of my soil. It doesn't work the same way in organic soils. They have a higher CMC and retain the urea for a longer time. If storing it in a container with ambient microbes for a week doesn't break down much of the urea, then I'm wasting some time.
 

nuttiest

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I prefer to use ammonia based fertilizers since the nitrogen is immediately available to the trees. Urea based ferts need to be broken down by microbial action to produce ammonia and/or nitrates. BUT, urea based ferts like Miracle Grow are easier to find and usually cheaper.

So I'm taking granular Miracle Grow, dissolving in water and storing in a 15 gal container for a week or two before use. Is this likely to be useful in generating ammonia and nitrates, or am I just fooling myself? Any opinions?
I think it's the other way around, but remember dilute foliar spray is immediate if you are in a hurry for immediate results. Transport measured in minutes, hours.
 

James W.

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When urea is dissolved in water it releases ammonia. Ammonia is not usable to plants and is toxic, it has to be bound by minerals and then converted to nitrates by bacteria. This is why urea fertilizers have to be used with care, they can "burn" plants. If the ammonia is not bound by the minerals in the soil, it will simply evaporate and be wasted, this is why urea needs to be tilled into the soil and not simply spread on the surface.
Dissolving fertilizer in water and waiting might allow some of the ammonia to be converted to nitrates ahead of time but would be lower in total available nitrogen. If I was going to do it that way I would circulate the solution through an aged fish tank filter to convert all the ammonia to nitrites then to nitrates.
 

Paradox

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I use miracle grow powder dissolved in water for my tropical trees and use it right after mixing.
The trees grow like weeds most of the winter.

I use fish emulsion based fertilizer that is mixed in water on my trees when they are outside.
The instructions say do not store it and use all that you mix at the time.

I use a very open soil that is 1:1:1 pumice, lava and akadama.
Trees seem to get enough nutrients just fine
All of the components of my soil are porous and will retain some of the fertilizer for a day or two
Unless you are using non porous substrates like gravel, the trees should get enough of what they need with periodic feeding.
They dont need to have fertilizer in the soil 24/7. Photosynthesis gives them a lot of what they need too
 
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