Using Superthrive?

Smoke

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It is my opinion that it only seems to work on American trees.

On better Japanese trees....not so much.


The US govt. is running tests (with money offered up from the bloated CDC budget) to see its effectivness with an American artist, performing Japanese methods on Chinese material in an English container, with Japanese soil (akadama) and American fertilizer (Miracle gro). Early testing shows it effectivness is increased when used in conjunction with HB-101 and humic acid.
 

FrankP999

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When I repot I feed my plants pottassium at 35 mg/l and phosphorus at 8 mg/l because thee are the elements needed for plant health. I then add magnesium and calcium as buds become active and no N til about 4 weeks after bud burst. I rarely have anythibg die.Paul

Paul, Thanks, I always learn something from your comments. I find it interesting that you add MG and CA before you add Nitrogen.

Is there a relatively easy way to duplicate your 0, 35 mg/l, 8 mg/l "recipe" without having lab equipment and separate chemicals for potassium and phosphorus?

Frank
 

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I'm not so certain about the "does no harm" theory. This nursery did a small pot trial and found that water was actually better at treating transplant shock then Vit B. It's worthwhile reading the article, though the great thing about the internet is that you can always find something to support an argument, which is why you should do your own pot trials.


http://www.almadenvalleynursery.com/site/breaking-the-vitamin-b-1myth-articles.php

Frank,

The article above offers some suggestions. I have found the simplest method is to make up a stock solution and then dilute when required. I use an electronic kitchen scale to measure chemicals, and a simple plastic jug for liquids is sufficient. It's not difficult and the stock solution will keep as there is no N in it for grow algae. Does mean having some bags of chemicals, but, they last for ages and minimal amounts mean you only need small bags, which are usually available at larger garden/hardware stores.

Add 20g potassium sulphate (K2SO4) to 20 L of water, dissolve; then add 7g mono potassium phosphate (KH2PO4) and dissolve. To use, dilute 1 litre with 9 litres water to make 10 litres, or 1/2 litre with 4 1/2 litres of water. If you want to add magnesium add 56g Epsom salts, calcium is best added as gypsum to the pots. Use this final solution every time you water.

The rational is that K is essential for water uptake by plant roots and is essential for stomatal closing. By removing roots during repotting the capacity of a plant to take up water and regulate dehydration is impaired, by adding K to the plant, it helps to reduce water stresses.

P is required for cellular health, cellular respiration is entirely dependent on P.

Plants have a good store of N in the trunks, so they don't need N until normal plant growth resumes. Plus a plant has to expend energy in converting fertilizer N to a usable form, energy which may be better spent on pushing buds and forming new roots.

Paul
 
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wireme

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I followed the superthrive threads around for a while a couple days ago. Amongst the debate I saw an interesting tidbit from Brent (evergreen). If I recall correctly a study showed that deficiency in P triggered increased root production. A possible strategy to withhold P immediately after transplant or collection? Any thoughts on that Paul?
 

edprocoat

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I've never used superthrive so I can't vouch for it's effectiveness. Strikes me that to keep using something that doesn't do anything, because it hasn't hurt anything, is a little dumb.

When I repot I feed my plants pottassium at 35 mg/l and phosphorus at 8 mg/l because thee are the elements needed for plant health. I then add magnesium and calcium as buds become active and no N til about 4 weeks after bud burst. I rarely have anythibg die.

Plants are very good at looking after their own hormones, they just need the right elements at the right time.

Paul

Show me the evidence that any certain fert, soil or mix there being far better in all cases on all trees. We use ferts on plants that have been collected on a mountainside living for years in a crack with limited soil, nutrients and moisture would you then say that perhaps using ferts on that tree is dumb? I have never had a plant I have used it on that did not get boost from it. Paul I would love tto see a few off your trees that you use your special mix on for comparison.

ed
 

carp

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Superthive : creating debates on whether or not it works since it was marketed and still no real answers from the manufacturer.

Keep on buying it.
 

63pmp

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I followed the superthrive threads around for a while a couple days ago. Amongst the debate I saw an interesting tidbit from Brent (evergreen). If I recall correctly a study showed that deficiency in P triggered increased root production. A possible strategy to withhold P immediately after transplant or collection? Any thoughts on that Paul?

Yes, more roots means more soil to exploit for P. Oddly, and no one really knows why, fertilizing with nitrate also stimulates root growth. It is a known response by the plants. However, in transplanted trees, especially when roots have been removed, adding P means the plants don't have to use reserves (to produce roots to find P) that could be utilized elsewhere.



Ed said,

Show me the evidence that any certain fert, soil or mix there being far better in all cases on all trees. We use ferts on plants that have been collected on a mountainside living for years in a crack with limited soil, nutrients and moisture would you then say that perhaps using ferts on that tree is dumb? I have never had a plant I have used it on that did not get boost from it. Paul I would love tto see a few off your trees that you use your special mix on for comparison.


WTF?

Here let me simplify it for you,

blah blah blah blah blah DUMB, blah blah blah.

The action is dumb; but if you want to own it, that's your issue. Go back and read it again.


Photos to compare with what?

Anyway, here are some of my trees I re-potted this year and treated in the manner I described.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61880&stc=1&d=1414051966
http://bonsainut.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61881&stc=1&d=1414051966
http://bonsainut.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61882&stc=1&d=1414051966

My mix is just just a cut down nutrient solution, nothing special, I would call Superthrive "special". Interestingly its banned for sale in Australia because the manufacturer will not reveal what's in it. Nothing says snake oil then that kind of behavior.

Paul
 

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My mix is just just a cut down nutrient solution, nothing special, I would call Superthrive "special". Interestingly its banned for sale in Australia because the manufacturer will not reveal what's in it. Nothing says snake oil then that kind of behavior.

It's a good thing we don't live in Australia.

american-flag-2.jpg
 

Eric Group

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I have used Superthrive kind of off and on over the years... Basically if I had some I would use it. Cannot say I have recorded the results against times when I didn't use it well enough to make any specific findings... And my soil mixes, fertilizing regiment, watering schedules and general CARE of my trees has evolved over time, so while I would say I saw my most productive year from a health and growth standpoint this season... I cannot really attribute it to the use of Superthrive. I HAVE used it some, but I tend to think the improvements in health and vigor are due to improved soil and consistent care more than Superthrive.

From what I have read, it contains vitamin b1 which is something commonly recommended to reduce transplant shock in trees... So when people say stuff like "why not just use Vitamin b1 instead of Superthrive"? Well... I just DID use it, in the superthrive... Or again, it is supposed to have Iron in it.., so people say well I just add Iron when I fertilize... Yeah, me too... When Ia died Superthrive!

I see it as being no different from adding those specific components like Iron or vitamin b1 (yes, I understand not everyone believes in the effects b1 is supposed to have on plants, root stimulation... Again it has been well debated and I am not providing any proof for or against it..) ST Is basically just adding them all at the same time... Like adding a mix of micronutrients. I think of it kind of like the Miracle grow of Micronutrients I guess. I use Miracle grow ferts as well, and sometimes Miracle grow Garden and potting soils (though not for Bonsai usually) but I supplement my feeding with organic ferts as well.. I assume all those who use Superthrive are using other ferts and soil additives as well, and those who don't use it are adding the same/ similar micros through another means... So as long as your plant is getting what it wants/ needs and the stuff you are adding isn't HURTING it... Why do we argue so much about it? The only thig I HAVE learned without a doubt from all the soil/ soil additive debates we have on here is that different stuff works for different people. Superthrive- along with a whole bunch of other stuff- works well for me, so I'm gonna keep using it when I have it around.
 

63pmp

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An interesting article, Jim.

I dropped N from my mix because of long nodes and big leaves. Curious about phosphate. Which all adds up to new pot trials next spring.

Paul
 
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