ForThemWhatCare
Mame
I grabbed a couple of inexpensive lights for my bonsai cold storage location and I'm wondering if I should set them for 4hrs, 8hrs, or 12 hours daily?
UV lights in cold storage
- Thread starter ForThemWhatCare
- Start date
Eckhoffw
Masterpiece
I’d mimic the daylight they would receive outside.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Dormant trees, especially deciduous trees, require no light in storage. Conifers don't necessarily either--If you are storing conifer bonsai in an enclosed location here in No. Va., I'd say it is completely unnecessary and potentially harmful to the trees.
ForThemWhatCare
Mame
Good to know. They are mostly conifers (a couple of burning bushes) and I didn't do it last season and they seemed to come out okay. And here I thought I was helping them
ForThemWhatCare
Mame
BTW, my "enclosed location" in my garage. Does that change any advice?
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Although I’m in 6B, I’m very close to a 7a zone border where I’m at … I’d say it’s probably better to keep your trees outside long as possible , a cascading approach.
All deciduous in containers along with some more delicate shohin pines are all kept outside on ground next to the house. There are wood boards on both sides with burlap wrapped around. The heat from the house also radiates to a degree. When late December and January roll around , they will be healed in with mulch.
Bigger conifers are kept out on the ground with wood boards all around ,and as a precaution will have mulch healed around once January hits. The deciduous that are still in big nursery containers are all huddled next to wood boards that enclose the conifers for wind break, and wrapped in burlap. The snow will also insulate once we get a decent storm.
Only trees that are in cold garage are semi tropical persimmon, pomegranate and a recently wired Juniper, but they are shuffled in and out during day before I go to work so if it rains or snows they get water…
If there is temperatures that go below 20, I may even bring delicates inside if there isn’t any snow to insulate.
It’s often an oversight, that ground temperatures offer a buffer for root temperatures 7-10F just placed on ground. In containers the roots are more sensitive than tree hardiness itself, so that’s why it’s good to place on ground to give heat to roots , and avoid the bridge freezing affect , huddled together, wind break and potentially heal with mulch once ground freezes to avoid rodents setting up camp.
How I learned my lesson.. I babied some trees last year which died once spring hit .h full on plastic cold frame , and burried in ground, my back yard dirt is all clay so it suffocated the roots so keep that in mind also.
One day it will be nice to have a cold frame that is permanent, but it has to be big enough to allow heat to escape from the top with shade cloth on roof.. so trees are kept aren’t adversely affected in winter, which will still need watering since they are enclosed.
All deciduous in containers along with some more delicate shohin pines are all kept outside on ground next to the house. There are wood boards on both sides with burlap wrapped around. The heat from the house also radiates to a degree. When late December and January roll around , they will be healed in with mulch.
Bigger conifers are kept out on the ground with wood boards all around ,and as a precaution will have mulch healed around once January hits. The deciduous that are still in big nursery containers are all huddled next to wood boards that enclose the conifers for wind break, and wrapped in burlap. The snow will also insulate once we get a decent storm.
Only trees that are in cold garage are semi tropical persimmon, pomegranate and a recently wired Juniper, but they are shuffled in and out during day before I go to work so if it rains or snows they get water…
If there is temperatures that go below 20, I may even bring delicates inside if there isn’t any snow to insulate.
It’s often an oversight, that ground temperatures offer a buffer for root temperatures 7-10F just placed on ground. In containers the roots are more sensitive than tree hardiness itself, so that’s why it’s good to place on ground to give heat to roots , and avoid the bridge freezing affect , huddled together, wind break and potentially heal with mulch once ground freezes to avoid rodents setting up camp.
How I learned my lesson.. I babied some trees last year which died once spring hit .h full on plastic cold frame , and burried in ground, my back yard dirt is all clay so it suffocated the roots so keep that in mind also.
One day it will be nice to have a cold frame that is permanent, but it has to be big enough to allow heat to escape from the top with shade cloth on roof.. so trees are kept aren’t adversely affected in winter, which will still need watering since they are enclosed.
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Nope. Conifers should be outdoors here, on the ground with a windbreak (wall, fence, burlap barriers, etc.) with three or four inches of mulch over the pots. FWIW, I don't give my ponderosa pine ANY winter protection. Putting them inside here is only asking for fungal issues and weak growth.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Just keep those outside. No reason in 7a to put them inside?Good to know. They are mostly conifers (a couple of burning bushes) and I didn't do it last season and they seemed to come out okay. And here I thought I was helping them
River's Edge
Masterpiece
keep them outside, place on the ground in a sheltered location and make sure they do not dry out or stay too wet for extended periods.Good to know. They are mostly conifers (a couple of burning bushes) and I didn't do it last season and they seemed to come out okay. And here I thought I was helping them
ForThemWhatCare
Mame
Okay, take them outside. Restack my display so they can huddle under the boards and between the blocks; add mulch and use the planks for shelter and wind block. Do I have that right?
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JesusFreak
Shohin
What about conifers that are hardiness for zone 8b and I am in 7a. I have them in the basement that’s around 45-50 but have them under t5 lights. They’re less than a year old if that matters
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
My winter storage is a coldpit and mulch beds. There are cedar elm (collected in Texas), Bald cypress (collected in La.) in this bed. I leave amur maple, western pines out on the benches. Have for years. Japanese maples, chinese elms and tridents go in the cold pit (which is covered with a lean-to of boards to keep out the wet a bit.
Attachments
ForThemWhatCare
Mame
So stick them in there with some mulch around them? Mulch first or second?
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Put the trees on the ground--on some sort of brick or other support that will give the bottoms of the pots air space over the ground--important for drainage during the winter.. Dump mulch on and over the pots top (up to three inches). Before placing the trees under the mulch water them well. After applying the mulch, water it well too.
ForThemWhatCare
Mame
how about river rock as a base? followed by trees...followed by mulch
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
That will work, what you're doing is creating an air pocket underneath the pot so it will drain effectively all winter. without that extra space, pot drainage can be blocked and you can get root rot and broken pots (from freezing).
ForThemWhatCare
Mame
Added river rocks I had not in use for drainage but there wasn't enough room so I slid the blanks to the right. Think I might need to purge some of my experiments...
Added the plants but some were too tall so faked it. If this looks good enough I'll buy and place the mulch tomorrow
Added the plants but some were too tall so faked it. If this looks good enough I'll buy and place the mulch tomorrow
parhamr
Omono
Ryan Neil explicitly teaches the opposite of this and cites contemporary, peer reviewed literature as the source. I believe you for “light on its own is not explicitly required in dormancy.” It is also true that “artificial daylight of a photoperiod simulating the growing period is more harmful than no light.” I don’t follow it on to see a rule or guidance that the goal shall be to deprive these trees of as much light as possible.
I feel a bit more belief in the subtlety from what Ryan is telling us: ongoing light exposure helps trees to maintain their cold hardiness (“resistance to cell eruption from freezing and crystallization in the cells’ vacuoles”) by continuing just enough maintenance activities in the light sensitive cells that remain present. (Deciduous trees have some chloroplasts in their bark!) The conclusion and/or hypothesis is that hardiness gradually fades as sugars and starches are consumed and the cells’ liquid contents become less saturated and more at risk of embolism or rupture. It makes enough sense to me.
He also claims moderate reproducibility of the phenomenon: trees shaded on the north sides of his benches were consistently, across multiple years, less enthusiastic and well resourced in their spring flushes compared to their compatriots on the southern exposed sides.
I don’t get it. Why would you use UV lights at all for plants, regardless of season? It’s the wrong wavelength for photosynthesis, AFAIK. Likely to just do damage to the eyes of the human being entering the area to water trees, if they’re not careful about turning the UV lamps off prior to approaching, and maybe also cause some leaf burn if it’s too intense.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Take the cover off for a while. I only cover mine when it rains excessively. I always allow snow in. The more they're covered, the more you have to worry about drying out. the weather in the past few days around here has been dry. Humidity has been very low and it's been windy. That dries out soil in small pots and the top layer of mulch quickly. I had to water some of my trees today because the wind had dried down a couple of inches, including some of the trees that only have an inch or so of mulch over them.
As for Ryan's advice, well, his overwintering video was pretty good. I've been doing what he said for mostly longer than he's been doing bonsai. As for light for deciduous trees in dormancy, not an issue for me, as my trees are outside. I don't take his advice on avoiding northern exposure, since I try to keep my trees cold for as long as possible in the spring. Direct sun can heat up mulch beds forcing new growth--then we can get hit with deep freezes come late Feb. and March. That can result in winter kill. That pattern has been happening with greater frequency over the last 10 years.
