Walk away from these nebari?

[Drewski]

Asking for advice from the more experienced pine folks. Are either of these something that will ever get better with time. The first pic is a Japanese White Pine with an ugly graft. Will that graft always be that ugly? The second pic is a Japanese Black Pine. Are those roots fixable with enough time? I’m asking as both trees seemed nice enough up top, until I checked the base. I’d like to get a couple of these pines, but don’t want to start with problem children.

 

[badatusernames]

I'm a newbie but I'm going to put an answer in writing so that I can see if the folks who are experienced agree with me, prior to seeing what they have to say... intended to be constructive criticism of the tree, so more calling out the potential faults I see.

Tree 1: I don't love it, the crossing roots in lower right are not ideal. The graft looks problematic in terms of the mismatch between the bark. I don't believe white pines will match that with age, either. There is some movement in the trunk though.

Tree 2: May have some interest. Remove the root that's highest on the trunk and spread the root system when repotting to help further develop the nebari. I suspect folks may say to remove the roots though, the left because of its odd angle and the bottom center because of its girth. There may be something interesting under the surface of the soil looking at the diameter of the trunk as it enters the soil (it looks like it might flare?). If I'm wrong about the flare, the trunk doesn't seem to have much taper, but perhaps you could wrap the lower trunk with wire and let the tree grow around it?

Curious to see how close I get...

 

[leatherback]

The first tree has a grafting scar that I never see become pretty.

The second also is grafted; From the picture it is hard to tell which species you have there. Does is NEED to be grafted, is it commonly grafted? Or are ungrafted specimens around. In the last case I would not get the grafted one.
The nebari on the second can be improved a lot already by clipping the top root. But.. The picture only shows part of the story.

I would not take either of them home with me if given, but I have too many trees. I you have no pines, place and these are not expensive you could consider taking one to practice pine-techniques on. I would then opt for the second. WHo knows, over a decade it might turn out to be a swan.

 

[TomB]

I would walk away from both.

 

[Drewski]

Thanks guys. I’ll keep looking. Both trees weren’t cheap, and I didn’t want to gamble with my limited knowledge,

 

[sorce]

Curious to see how close I get...

Sometimes when I drive into a parking lot, I'll find a spot, close my eyes and try to get in it.

Sorce

 

[LanceMac10]

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Number 1 - JWP - the graft here is actually quite good. It is very low in the roots. The "orange" deadwood sticking up, is the remainder of the understock and can be cut off now, or in the near future. If it is possible to put this scar to the back of the tree, this in time will completely disappear. The roots can be sorted. Many forget that graft scars normally take 10 years to "disappear". This one will be quite nice if it can be put to the back of the tree. In as little as 5 years from now (assuming this is already 3 or 4 years post grafting) this graft union will be near invisible. Not being able to see the rest of the tree means you will have to decide yourself.

Number 2. - I disagree with @leatherback - I see no sign of it being grafted. This looks like a JBP on its own roots. This root "mess" is very poor, and I would walk away from it. It would take "forever" to try and fix this root system. JBP are common in the "bonsai marketplace", I would walk away from this one as unfixable.

 

[leatherback]

lol.

This is what I think I see:

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Don’t walk, run!

 

[Paradox]

I agree with others, leave those and find something better