rockm
Spuds Moyogi
yeah, your head would explode ;-)Thanks!
And that's plenty of evidence for me to NOT buy the book! Lol!!!
yeah, your head would explode ;-)Thanks!
And that's plenty of evidence for me to NOT buy the book! Lol!!!
Probably! Lol!!!yeah, your head would explode ;-)
Just wondering if WP is in with "myth busting", or did he only do the photos?collaborative effort from Messrs. Morton and Pall
He's not an author of the book (he wrote the forward section of it), but he pretty much adheres to most of what's in it. I think he's even cited it...From the forward "Too often experts are just repeating what they know from hearsay. Too often the experts have used the wrong, or at least questionable, practices for too long. Many have been doing bonsai for 20 years or more. Who wants to admit that he did the wrong thing for 20 years..." It goes on like that for a while...Just wondering if WP is in with "myth busting", or did he only do the photos?
That's the thing people tend to forget...as they learn and gain experience, their trees improve. So was it the change to akadama, or the gain in experience?Or maybe it might have to do with your classes with boon and not a magical soil from the east. FWIW, ak is still more expensive and rare in the U.S. than other soils that are more than up to the task (and don't degrade into magical mush over a hard winter)...Your experience with trees when growing with Turface coincide with a lower experience level of how to water/care for them? The adage that bonsai can be grown in anything with the proper care is noted in the book. Other stuff is cheaper and more available...;-) just sayin'
"rockm, post:
Sieving soil fines less than one eighth of an inch is necessary--NOT. Sieving soil hasn't been necessary for 50 years.
Always use Akadama--Nope, it's an unstable aggregate, high in finer clay particles that break down (unless it's the high fired stuff). It has no trace of organic material, but it isn't sterile as often claimed. It is used in Japan because of its aggregate structure, which can be replicated in the west with MANY different, less expensive and more suitable materials.
Organic fert cakes are da bomb--Not really. They Look fancy and they were the modern way to feed 50 years ago. Now they're just slow to work, ineffective overall and maggot magnets if you can keep the squirrels from stealing them.
Let tap water sit for a day to clear chlorine--Useless fear. If it's good enough for you to drink, it's good enough for bonsai. Chlorine is an essential element for plants and is required in relatively high amounts anyway.
Biostimulants, like vitamins, auxins, cytokinins and salicylic acids or other plant or animal extracts are beneficial. Uh-uh, nope...commonly available INDEPENDENT research haven't shown any support for the claims. I will quote here "Most biostimulant products independently tested were verified to have no beneficial effects on plant health. Testimonials don't count. Testimonials are advertisements...What works in field soil crops won't work in a bonsai substrate devoid of organic matter and microorganisms."
Well...Or maybe it might have to do with your classes with boon and not a magical soil from the east. FWIW, ak is still more expensive and rare in the U.S. than other soils that are more than up to the task (and don't degrade into magical mush over a hard winter)...Your experience with trees when growing with Turface coincide with a lower experience level of how to water/care for them? The adage that bonsai can be grown in anything with the proper care is noted in the book. Other stuff is cheaper and more available...;-) just sayin'
It is necessary if you use soil (which I do from time to time) So...... that's wrong.
Yes I pretty much agree with that. However akadama is still a very good product. It is still better to use than high fired materials for some tree. Particularly deciduous trees in small pots. So...that's half wrong
You don't HAVE to use them but most manufactured controlled release ferts are too high in N. Longer internodes and bigger leaves. Fine in the development stage but not for finished trees. You would need to carefully balance the NPK ratio to get similar results. The Japanese have had access to manufactured fertilizers pretty much as long as we have. (in fact they manufacture one of the higher quality slow release formulations - Nutricote). After the war they used them. They went back cakes. The very fact that they are slow to work is the one of the main points.
So....That's wrong
I agree with this. however, chloride is needed in relatively tiny amounts. So...that's half wrong
I've already proved that is wrong. BTW, NO substrate is devoid of microorganisms. They are everywhere just waiting to be fed. (including on the mouse you are touching) So..... that's wrong.
Not a very good start I'd say!
And BTW, I think you'd be better off trying to refute the actual stuff in the book.It is necessary if you use soil (which I do from time to time) So...... that's wrong.
Yes I pretty much agree with that. However akadama is still a very good product. It is still better to use than high fired materials for some tree. Particularly deciduous trees in small pots. So...that's half wrong
You don't HAVE to use them but most manufactured controlled release ferts are too high in N. Longer internodes and bigger leaves. Fine in the development stage but not for finished trees. You would need to carefully balance the NPK ratio to get similar results. The Japanese have had access to manufactured fertilizers pretty much as long as we have. (in fact they manufacture one of the higher quality slow release formulations - Nutricote). After the war they used them. They went back cakes. The very fact that they are slow to work is the one of the main points.
So....That's wrong
I agree with this. however, chloride is needed in relatively tiny amounts. So...that's half wrong
I've already proved that is wrong. BTW, NO substrate is devoid of microorganisms. They are everywhere just waiting to be fed. (including on the mouse you are touching) So..... that's wrong.
Not a very good start I'd say!
Amazon, has the book open for a goodly amount of reading. The writing is very pale, so be prepared.
Isn't that interesting, Coh! Because that's what akadama does, too!Ah, so it does. Excellent! Thanks for posting that information. I don't remember seeing that option when I first looked.
Haven't read through everything in the preview yet, but this little nugget caught my eye (pertaining to use of bark as a soil component):
"Bark drains well at first, then it eventually starts to break down and hold more water. Roots readily colonize it at about the optimum time when the plant's water demands increase."
Sounds a bit like another ingredient we've been talking about...
="rockm,
I'd argue that "went back to cakes" BECAUSE they're cheaper and can be made in person. In post-war Japan chemical resources were scarce. We had just finished bombing the shit out of their manufacturing capabilities. The Japanese adapted post-war to many inconveniences--like using saplings for forest bonsai. Some bonsai practices are bound to the habits developed post-war. Some practices in Japan are ingrained, but that doesn't make them the best...
It is felt
They feel?They also feel
Very Godzilla of you M.Frary. Yep. As I said, subtleties which some people just don't understand. Just the same goes with styling.They feel?
Very scientific.
They feel?
Very scientific.[/QUOT
How do Japanese nurseries do it NOW? I have not worked at one, but have known people who have. There is no real compunction against using "bigger, faster, better." The doses of insecticide used in Japanese bonsai nurseries escalates through the spring and summer, until the workers spraying it get chemical burns, so the "zen" approach being pitched here is a bit disingenuous...Quote; Lynn R Perry, from ''Bonsai'' A Guide to the methods of Kyuzo Murata 1964'' ....''After the war, these chemical fertilizers were used almost exclusively by the Japanese nurserymen for a period of several years. However, they have returned to the above- given organic fertilizer mixtures for the following reasons. It is felt that the leaves of the bonsai lose their lustre and the tips of the branches grow bigger around (courser) when using chemical instead of organic fertilizer. They also feel that the period of fruiting and flowering is reduced by the use of chemical fertilizer.''
Kyuzo Murata practiced bonsai for 70 years.....enough said. I think perhaps the subtleties of bonsai are sometimes missed by the ''bigger, better, faster'' western methodologies.
I refer to Herr Pall's forward -- "Too often experts are just repeating what they know from hearsay. Too often the experts have used the wrong, or at least questionable, practices for too long. Many have been doing bonsai for 20 years or more. Who wants to admit that he did the wrong thing for 20 years..."