Water in the winter

[dacoontz]

Simple question, I have essentially put all my trees in what I call my bonsai hut and then wrapped the whole structure in plastic, minus the roof. The top is covered in a shade fabric that allows quite a bit of water through and while seemingly preventing frost on my trees. I have not covered the top in plastic but wonder if I should.

I worry a bit about too much water here in Oregon from frequent winter rain, leading to root rot despite all my efforts to ensure my soil is well draining. I love my trees getting the rain but I’m still thinking they’re getting too much. With the occasional freezing temps here having my hoses regularly available to water can also be tricky.

So here’s my questions, cover or not to cover my bonsai hut’s roof? And then, if covering is ideal then how much do you really need to water? Certainly the answers will vary depending on species. So far I have all my trees, minus tropicals, in my hut. If a freeze follows lots of rain, can this lead to frozen roots and tree death?

I welcome all feedback as beginner as my questions may be, since that’s what I am after all.

 

[kale]

Are you concerned with low temps? If not, imo keeping it open with good air flow seems to be the best option. If you want to keep the temps up then cover it.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Do not worry about Oregon rain. Personal temperate trees fully exposed to weather 365 1/4 days each year. Includes Ponderosa, Bristlecone and Limber pines some consider must be too abnormally dry to survive.

 

[dacoontz]

Are you concerned with low temps? If not, imo keeping it open with good air flow seems to be the best option. If you want to keep the temps up then cover it.

Somewhat concerned with lower temps for the deciduous trees and too much water for the conifers. Mostly concerned about soggy roots on a large cypress and various deciduous trees I recently moved in there as well. I like your thoughts on air circulating though. Maybe need to add a few ventilation holes though to let the air move through from West to East.

 

[dacoontz]

Do not worry about Oregon rain. Personal temperate trees fully exposed to weather 365 1/4 days each year. Includes Ponderosa, Bristlecone and Limber pines some consider must be too abnormally dry to survive.

Southern Oregon rain no less. I worry that I have all my trees regardless of species all together though.

 

[leatherback]

I think you might be doing more harm than helping your trees with this enclosure. Trees need air circulation, especially when it is humid.

Rain is common here too. We are in this time of year that nothing ever dried, moss starts to reach the 4ft tall and you never know whether it is raining or just wet outside. All my trees are in this weather, although once I clean the bark of more barky species, I tend to move them in a shed.. Not to protect the roots, but to stop the moss from taking hold again. If you have a good open substrate it should not be an issue.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@dacoontz - you list yourself as being in zone 8b. Any of your trees that are winter hardy to zone 7a or colder, should not be in the enclosure. They should be outside, fully exposed, except they should be set on the ground. I am in zone 5b, and my Metasequoia, Picea, Pinus nigra, Pinus sylvestris, Pinus banksiana, Chamaecyparis, Tsuga, Ulmus parvifolia, Vaccinium, Stewartia, Acer rubrum, Buxus, Juniperus 'Itoigawa', 'Kishu', and many others are all outside, fully exposed, merely set on the ground for the winter. You are in a much more mild climate than mine. Majority of your temperate tree species should be outside. They really only need to be "on the ground" the nights that the night low drops below 28 F. In zone 8b I suspect you can leave your trees on your display benches for most of the winter, with only a week or two of temperatures below 29F.

Over-protecting your trees can create as much trouble as under protecting.

 

[rodeolthr]

I'm outside of Seattle in zone 8a. All of my trees sit outside all winter, getting soaked by the incessant rain. They also freeze solid for at least several days to a week when our temperatures drop into the teens. The majority of my trees are Japanese maples.

 

[dacoontz]

Okay, so simply having them in my bonsai hut on shelves should be fine. I’ll have to add a picture of the inside. Last pic shows where some sit displayed. Looking over the fence is looking South. Hence right side of pic is to the West. Big oaks behind the fence have lost their leaves but the Madrones keep them all year as many of you know. Large 3 acre lot behind me is going to be developed within the next year and most of those trees will go, completely changing the light in my backyard along the fence. Something else for me to look forward to.

Pay no mind to the two near death yamadori. I have a hard time letting go.

 

[SouthernMaple]

@dacoontz - you list yourself as being in zone 8b. Any of your trees that are winter hardy to zone 7a or colder, should not be in the enclosure. They should be outside, fully exposed, except they should be set on the ground. I am in zone 5b, and my Metasequoia, Picea, Pinus nigra, Pinus sylvestris, Pinus banksiana, Chamaecyparis, Tsuga, Ulmus parvifolia, Vaccinium, Stewartia, Acer rubrum, Buxus, Juniperus 'Itoigawa', 'Kishu', and many others are all outside, fully exposed, merely set on the ground for the winter. You are in a much more mild climate than mine. Majority of your temperate tree species should be outside. They really only need to be "on the ground" the nights that the night low drops below 28 F. In zone 8b I suspect you can leave your trees on your display benches for most of the winter, with only a week or two of temperatures below 29F.

Over-protecting your trees can create as much trouble as under protecting.

Leo do I have your stamp of approval? I usually don't put my deciduous trees into dormancy so early but Im gonna be away next week for 4 days. My spot is under a covered porch, so it gets
no rain on it and is really dry. I am thinking of draping a shade cloth over it because it gets some afternoon sun

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Not @Leo in N E Illinois, yet it seems like you are good to go for 4 days. I'd be sure the trees have moist media if it is really dry. Don’t think the sun will be a great factor right now..

My older trees are already all dug in, in partial sun under big Rhodys, so they get wet, but are partially shielded from the prevailing winds.

Long term at this spot I’d be sure your media is moist, since you mention it’s a dry spot. No drenching, just keep moist especially just before, not during a freeze. Finally, fashioning some sort of a wind shield might help improve survival.

Good luck, let us know how you fare!
cheers
DSD sends

 

[dacoontz]

Thanks for the replies. Decided to move some stuff and open up my hut. See pics. Removed plastic on North face of hit which is tucked up to my shop. Then cut some holes in the west facing side to promote air flow. Hopefully didn’t open it up too much. Moved conifers to the North side where they’ll get best light and have most exposure to the colder temperature. Took evergreen broadleaf plants out of the shade and put them on top of shelves where they’ll get some light but farthest away from the open side of my hut where they are less exposed to colder temperatures. Deciduous trees got tucked under shelves or on the ground under the main shelf. Tilted everything slightly that didn’t have well draining soil like nursery potted plants and yamadori in native soil.

Lastly, stuck a couple yamadori pinus contorta in heavy planters out in the open. They’ve tolerated much colder climates, but this is their first year in boxes so hopefully they’ll be ok.

I welcome any further feedback to my changes.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Looking much better now.

Still concur with others that moving them outside in a sheltered area and digging them in wouldn’t hurt most all your trees, cut down on care and likely do the trees a spot more good with natural rain water, but you’ve got the right idea.

Here’s a couple examples for next time. I dig out trees in the ground (just under the rim) and put bark nuggets underneath and also on top.

For the smaller trees I excavate a small area, huddle trees together, nugget bark on top and sides with some newspaper around the lot. Lastly put any loose pots I have around the bunch just because.

Might even be overkill for my area, yet I’ve not lost one that was outside this way.

btw: You can get better help if you edit your data (double tap your icon on top) to enter your location data. Doesn’t have to be exact, but close enough that we can know the rough geographic area and usda hardiness zone.

Cheers
DSD send

 

[dacoontz]

Looking much better now.

Still concur .........but close enough that we can know the rough geographic area and usda hardiness zone.

Cheers
DSD send

Thank you for the reply, top of my bonsai hut is that woven shade cloth you can buy at Lowe’s. It lets the rain drip on through keeping them well hydrated.

That’s where I worry about too much moisture for some of my trees, like the large Boulevard cypress. Worth covering the substrate to limit watering? Didn’t worry about it last year, but didn’t have this breadth of trees that I do now. However, I didn’t lose any trees either last year.

 

[leatherback]

I worry

You are in 8B
Do you have your trees in open mostly in-organic substrate?

Then do not worry.

Trees can handle rain. Trees can handle gentle frost. Cool winter is not a challenge for most bonsai, untill temps drop below 20f for longer periods of time.

Trees hate saturated rootballs with no air.
Trees hate to be frozen through while standing exposed to direct wind and sun (dessicantion)

 

[Harcusha]

I believe that it is enough to hide them in such construction

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I believe that it is enough to hide them in such construction

Welcome aboard @Harcusha!

Can you please help us by changing your profile (double tap on your icon) and add your approximate location and USDA zone? That way in the future ‘Nuts can help answer your questions properly and those near you can possibly chime in with local knowledge.

Look forward to seeing your posts!
cheers
DSD sends

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Leo do I have your stamp of approval? I usually don't put my deciduous trees into dormancy so early but Im gonna be away next week for 4 days. My spot is under a covered porch, so it gets
no rain on it and is really dry. I am thinking of draping a shade cloth over it because it gets some afternoon sun



View attachment 344425View attachment 344426

Yes, approved! As is, no wind screen needed.

Unless of course you have unusual wind patterns.