Water Nazi's
- Thread starter FourMileMarc
- Start date
meushi
Mame
For two obvious reasons:
1) the free market can only work with informed customers
2) the free market can't work with huge companies and monopolies (they limit the customer choice and increase the price to enter the market)
FourMileMarc
Mame
Godwin's Law.
In this case it does not apply because it (Nazi) is used by me in reference to anyone (in this case the water people) to describle a "Big government collectivist enforcer"
Socialism has many flavors but only one true goal. Communism is Socialism at the point of a gun and socialism has the same end goal but is propigated through coercion slowly over time instead. The people have the wool pulled over their eyes so slowly they never notice. Until all they see is wool and they think that is freedom. "The government knows what is best for us and they will save us" is what they say. This is what happened in Nazi Germany. The people were duped.
Not to be paranoid but the exact same this has been happening here for a long time, albeit a much softer and invisible version. That is just our version of it however. If you read history, the same end goal always happens at one point or another. It may take 10 years or it may take 700.
In this case it does not apply because it (Nazi) is used by me in reference to anyone (in this case the water people) to describle a "Big government collectivist enforcer"
Socialism has many flavors but only one true goal. Communism is Socialism at the point of a gun and socialism has the same end goal but is propigated through coercion slowly over time instead. The people have the wool pulled over their eyes so slowly they never notice. Until all they see is wool and they think that is freedom. "The government knows what is best for us and they will save us" is what they say. This is what happened in Nazi Germany. The people were duped.
Not to be paranoid but the exact same this has been happening here for a long time, albeit a much softer and invisible version. That is just our version of it however. If you read history, the same end goal always happens at one point or another. It may take 10 years or it may take 700.
Free Market!
You are joking right. We have not seen that for at least 100 years.
As far as collecting rainwater in big underground storage tanks. I may do that when they abolish the income tax.it.
Are you still paying income taxes, I guess you wern't aware Harry Reid abolished them.
Ciao,
Harry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mRSI8yWwg
FourMileMarc
Mame
Actually you are almost correct. The free market can work with the biggest of companies. However that company turns into a monopoly when government intervenes. No one can compete with a corporation that is subsidised by the government with taxpayer and Fed dollars. That corporation then gains monopoly status.
The Federal Reserve is a private bank given cart blanch to print it's own reserve, make loans and then collect interest. Now that is a monopoly over banking and market. A legal counterfiting sceme to boot.
The Federal Reserve is a private bank given cart blanch to print it's own reserve, make loans and then collect interest. Now that is a monopoly over banking and market. A legal counterfiting sceme to boot.
FourMileMarc
Mame
Greerhw,
I am aware that there actually is no law. Problem is you had better have a sympathetic jury and good attorney well versed in title 26.
I could volunteer to not stop for the police when I am getting pulled over as well even though I did nothing wrong.
I am aware that there actually is no law. Problem is you had better have a sympathetic jury and good attorney well versed in title 26.
I could volunteer to not stop for the police when I am getting pulled over as well even though I did nothing wrong.
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Godwin's Law.
In this case it does not apply because it (Nazi) is used by me in reference to anyone (in this case the water people) to describle a "Big government collectivist enforcer"
Socialism has many flavors but only one true goal. Communism is Socialism at the point of a gun and socialism has the same end goal but is propigated through coercion slowly over time instead. The people have the wool pulled over their eyes so slowly they never notice. Until all they see is wool and they think that is freedom. "The government knows what is best for us and they will save us" is what they say. This is what happened in Nazi Germany. The people were duped.
Not to be paranoid but the exact same this has been happening here for a long time, albeit a much softer and invisible version. That is just our version of it however. If you read history, the same end goal always happens at one point or another. It may take 10 years or it may take 700.
I agree with you to a point, the point where you left it does not go far enough. It always ends at the point of a gun. There is only one guarantee with Socialism; the best you can accomplish is mediocrity. Anything better will be punished by government taking some of it away, anything less will be subsidised by that which was taken away from the one that did better. There fore there is no incentive to achieve excellence. Eventually you wind up with a society that is too dumb to come in from the rain, no body produces anything and government has to take over everything at the point of a gun.
meushi
Mame
Even without government intervention, once a company has a solid monopoly you effectively cannot enter the market to compete with it. Once a company has amassed enough money to buy a small country or is the richest company in its sector, short of corporate suicide that company will dictate the market rules for the foreseeable future. Therefore a mega-company or a monopoly is the antithesis of a free market.
Case in mind: Microsoft.
They started small by undercutting the competition to become the de facto OS on a new platform. That platform became a big player, so did Microsoft on the nascent desktop OS... until that point every manufacturer had a specific OS for its desktop platform. Then they slowly started dictating their conditions to OEMs to reinforce their position and turn it into a monopoly. Their monopoly on the desktop OS allowed them to undercut superior products to gain monopoly on the office productivity suites. Their monopoly on desktop OS and office productivity has allowed them to undercut superior products on the server OS market, database market and game console market. Each and every time they gained monopoly in a market, they have inflated the price of the corresponding product. The only two business units making money for Microsoft at the moment are: Desktop OS and Office, all the other business units are either in the red or barely breaking even. With a war chest of 42 billions US Dollars and marginal costs of 0, they can actually afford to offer 95+% discounts to big customers looking for alternatives to Microsoft. Voluntarily entering the market against Microsoft is commercial suicide.
FourMileMarc
Mame
I don't know enough about Microsoft but if a company invents a superior product and patents it and everyone prefers it over anything else out there than that company will shread over anyone else in that area of production. It may appear to have a monopoly. As long as everyone plays with their own earned capital + investors all is free. Someone smarter than Bill Gates may not have come around yet to invent something better. After all its better than Linux or Mac right?
Software companies dictate their products mostly around Windows because it is the most popular with the people and not because they have to. If I invented and patented a grow box better and cheaper than Vance's with say a secret electromagnetic superthrive injector it may appear that I now have a monopoly over bonsai training containers for a while until Vance came out with something superior to mine. In the mean time a new technology in soil that makes my injector units work even better may start taking allot of business away from the overpriced Bonsai soil companies. It may not seem fair to some who are not as creative as me, but it is free.
Survival of the fittest is a natural law that will always spring back when bent and in sometimes an ugly way.
Software companies dictate their products mostly around Windows because it is the most popular with the people and not because they have to. If I invented and patented a grow box better and cheaper than Vance's with say a secret electromagnetic superthrive injector it may appear that I now have a monopoly over bonsai training containers for a while until Vance came out with something superior to mine. In the mean time a new technology in soil that makes my injector units work even better may start taking allot of business away from the overpriced Bonsai soil companies. It may not seem fair to some who are not as creative as me, but it is free.
Survival of the fittest is a natural law that will always spring back when bent and in sometimes an ugly way.
FrankP999
Shohin
A free market also has substitutes that will allow consumers to switch products. Last I heard, there is no substitute for H2O.
Frank
Frank
Microsoft is a chump business compared to Walmart, the government would love to control Walmart but they can't because Walmart has done nothing wrong and have no serious competition. Target is trying, but they will never get there. In time the suits will figure a way to stop Walmart with some sort of regulation. They(the government) stopped Walmart from saying their products were made in America when all of them wern't. Here is a list of the ten richest people in the USA. All the Waltons are in the top ten, remember Sam Waltons fortune was divided up between his children(4 ways)
William H. Gates III
Warren E. Buffett
Sheldon Adelson
Lawrence J. Ellison
Paul G. Allen
Jim C Walton
Christy Walton
S. Robson Walton
Michael Dell
Alice L. Walton
Harry
William H. Gates III
Warren E. Buffett
Sheldon Adelson
Lawrence J. Ellison
Paul G. Allen
Jim C Walton
Christy Walton
S. Robson Walton
Michael Dell
Alice L. Walton
Harry
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FourMileMarc
Mame
I'm poor but I work hard. I hope some day when I am Rich I don't have to give all my money to some poor lazy slob. Unless of course I choose to.
Don't you hate it when someone calls you at dinner time claiming to represent some organizations when they are employed by a company that collections for a shit load of worthwhile organizations. I always ask how much they keep and how much does the organization they are calling about gets. Last call I got was from Special Olympics (so they said) I ask how much do you keep and how much does Special Olympics get. The kid on the fone said they keep 88% and Special Olympics gets 12%, I told him to go to hell and put me on your don't call list. What little I have left to donate goes to organizations that get all my donation, like St. Judes in memphis that treats kids with cancer that can't can't afford anywhere else.
Harry
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
The key word is choose! Remember the flap over Joe the Plumber during the Presidential campaign? Obama told Joe that he intended to spread the wealth. Want to guess what that means? The problem with this is that it does not make everyone equally wealthy, it makes everyone equally destitute. Again human nature comes into play.
Without the system of hard work equaling greater rewards no one is encouraged to work hard. After all; why should I work hard if I am going to receive as much money as Joe the Plumber either way? The problem is then compounded when Joe the Plumber figures it out and decides that he is not going to work as hard any more, after all; why should he. Anything he makes over a certain amount will be taken from him, so actually the only way he can make a profit is not to work, so that by not working as hard or as much the time he actually spends working is in essence worth more and he has free time to enjoy doing nothing.
See where this crap goes? At some point the government figures this out and requires everyone to work. Of course by this time those nasty corporations have all contracted the same disease of the new work ethic, or they have been taken over by government, and run into bankruptcy. In short you might make people work but the standard of living goes steadily downward so that by the time work is required at some level there are no jobs available to occupy the man power. It's just a giant Ponzi scheme.
FourMileMarc
Mame
Greer and Vance,
Nail on the head.
However that is just one side of the impending crisis. The nail in the coffin is what happens to the currency because that forces the people to then "need" the nanny state. Wages never rise equally to inflation. The more money "easy credit" infused into the economy not backed by labor to pay stimulus by the Fed along with lower interest rates will create another hyper-inflationary period. The scary thing is is that this creates another bubble only to a point. A currency can only take so much of this until the people have to start trading in something worth more. And with the legal tender laws in all, who knows what will happen.
Nail on the head.
However that is just one side of the impending crisis. The nail in the coffin is what happens to the currency because that forces the people to then "need" the nanny state. Wages never rise equally to inflation. The more money "easy credit" infused into the economy not backed by labor to pay stimulus by the Fed along with lower interest rates will create another hyper-inflationary period. The scary thing is is that this creates another bubble only to a point. A currency can only take so much of this until the people have to start trading in something worth more. And with the legal tender laws in all, who knows what will happen.
The day the US went off the silver and gold standard, we started a downhill slide we will never recover from. Many, many years ago the government went after some of the gold minning companys in California that were minting their own coins, when all the BS was finally over, the company that was minting their own coins, was found out there were was more gold in their coins than the Government coins, never mind, the government would take care of the minting of all the coins in the US. The government won't let a private company deliver the mail, guess why, they would do a better job for less money than the blessed government and put another union run business full of lazy pri*ks out of business.
Harry
treebeard55
Chumono
We had a guest speaker this morning in church, who mentioned something that I found interesting and scary.
This man visits Israel whenever he can. He was just there recently, and for the first time an Israeli storekeeper refused to accept American dollars from him. That happened twice. Their confidence in the US dollar has eroded that far! And this was Israel, not Iran.
The dollar was backed by gold and silver; then by the US economy. Now, to quote this speaker, it's just backed by a growing list of IOU's.
(Maybe this thread should be moved to the Karaoke Bar.)
This man visits Israel whenever he can. He was just there recently, and for the first time an Israeli storekeeper refused to accept American dollars from him. That happened twice. Their confidence in the US dollar has eroded that far! And this was Israel, not Iran.
The dollar was backed by gold and silver; then by the US economy. Now, to quote this speaker, it's just backed by a growing list of IOU's.
(Maybe this thread should be moved to the Karaoke Bar.)
treebeard55
Chumono
Sorry, Harry. It means cultured, sophisticated.
It's Russian. (Which is not the same as "Soviet.")
FourMileMarc
Mame
My dad and I had a talk about this gold standard thing. He went to Yale and he is a republican. He is convinced that deflation is far worse than inflation. In Yale, Princeton, Harvard, etc. this is what you are taught, Keynesian economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics. Just about every chief economist, member of congress, presidents etc. was taught this version. Republican or Democrat is does not matter, you have this viewpoint or the media does not give you airtime to allow you to be voted in. This is the European model.
What my dad does not realize is that deflation is critical to allow the middle class and poor to re-grip and gain after an inflationary bubble collapses. Being suckered into taking on more debt again at a lower rate will just keep them destitute and lower the value of the currency. This system only benefits the politicos and their corporate backers at the expense of the middle class.
Gold however always retains its value. The spike is not from supply and demand, it is simply just a result of the lowering dollar value.
A great example of government coercion in economics in the U.S. as per the gold standard.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/wiggin-addison6.html
explains everything
Sorry, I should have posted this in the bar. I get carried away sometimes.
What my dad does not realize is that deflation is critical to allow the middle class and poor to re-grip and gain after an inflationary bubble collapses. Being suckered into taking on more debt again at a lower rate will just keep them destitute and lower the value of the currency. This system only benefits the politicos and their corporate backers at the expense of the middle class.
Gold however always retains its value. The spike is not from supply and demand, it is simply just a result of the lowering dollar value.
A great example of government coercion in economics in the U.S. as per the gold standard.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/wiggin-addison6.html
explains everything
Sorry, I should have posted this in the bar. I get carried away sometimes.
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