Watering in pure perlite?

[boschetaru]

Hello guys,
Pure perlite, hornbeam-pre bonsai,in growth atm.
How often should i water it and how can i check if it is dry?
For sure i was overwatering,now i should w8 until it is dry and water again right?
p.s on top of perlite i have some kerzanit ...you know perlite floats..
Tnx

 

[Potawatomi13]

Why use substrate that retains practically zero H2O? Also is the matter that this substance has no weight for practical purposes no ability to add anchor weight to keep pot/tree from blowing over or hold tree in place. Imagination would tell that near constant H2Oing would be needed for life of tree.

 

[boschetaru]

For sure it holds water, there are some studies done and perlite will retain water quite well(google it).
As for weight, it has some, due to the kerzanit on top, it will not fall from strong wind or smth similar.
So can someone tell me how to check if it is dry or not.
tnx

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

For sure it holds water, there are some studies done and perlite will retain water quite well(google it).
As for weight, it has some, due to the kerzanit on top, it will not fall from strong wind or smth similar.
So can someone tell me how to check if it is dry or not.
tnx

Hi boschetaru,
Make take on your question is simple - Stubbornness = not a learning experience. I have learnt the hard way after 20 plus years in Horticulture. Unsure what your experience is but try using You-Tube and search “Bonsai substrates and their water holding capacity”. You will learn that Perlite does hold some moisture, but bark chips, peat, Pumice, Zeolite, cat litter as DE, and Akadama holds considerably more and are a combination of the above substrates is more advised.
If you need to, try putting a litre of perlite in a plastic container, fill the container with water, wait for absorbing to happen, try measuring the water you get (tip out) as the difference is how much “water holding capacity” of perlite. You will be sadly surprised.

To answer your question - try reading your plant, wait for the leaves to show minimal green and/or go into wilting point, then you can judge how dry you let the perlite get before watering, because you will get no answer as to how dry/wet your perlite is, as it holds minimum water via feel/dibble test.
Charles

 

[boschetaru]

You are perfectlly right about my stubbornness
Atm i cannot change the "soil", i know there are better mixes but when i potted it i only had perlite.I watched some guy on youtube who did some testing on in/organic soils and perlite had about 36 percent loss, that is why i said it can retain some water.
Now,next spring i will mix perlite with european peat moss and pumice, but until then my hands are tied.
I will watch the leaves in the next days and see if they are wilting and then i will water again.
Tnx

 

[WOOB]

I don't think is a good growing medium at all for the reasons mentioned. But on a different note about perlite I was told by a very good collector and grower he uses perlite just some with his pines and other trees who need micronize as he has found it likes perlite ... So I am now using some in the mix maybe 10 percent but not as the top dressing.

 

[boschetaru]

Simple question: will it die or not?

 

[GrimLore]

Simple question: will it die or not?

Not if you can maintain the amount of water that supplies air movement across the roots. It is possible to grow cuttings in it and because it does hold some moisture once wet does ok if not allowed to dry out to much. I know of no way to measure moisture with any accuracy in perlite less then laboratory grade.

Grimmy

 

[sparklemotion]

How often should i water it and how can i check if it is dry?
For sure i was overwatering,now i should w8 until it is dry and water again right?

Find a chopstick, wooden dowel, barbeque skewer type thing. Stick it in the soil at least 2/3 of the way down. Pull it out to check periodically. If the bottom of the skewer is damp/cool to the touch, don't water. If it's dry, water gently and thoroughly (until water drains out the bottom).

Perlite holds a fair amount of water (and air, even when wet). If it had decent nutrient holding capacity (and didn't float) it would be a great soil component.

 

[wireme]

I have a few trees in pure perlite. Nothing large, some cutting that were struck into perlite, a few seedlings. Enough to observe it over a few years though. It holds if anything more moisture for longer than my pumice based mixes, probably because the particle size is a bit smaller. I think it’s a great growing media myself. I don’t worry about judging to moisture content I just water everything thoroughly at least once, usually twice a day. The perlite pots stay wetter than others, plants don’t seem to mind at all. The tree should do just fine, fertilize often.

 

[boschetaru]

Tnx all for the kind replies an precious informations, i will keep you updated.
This is my first season..so be gentle

 

[boschetaru]

I have one more question,stupid could be:
When i water it goes down to the draining holes in about 10 seconds or so.
After that should i lift it up ,the pot, to drain all the remaining water or should i leave it like that ?
I,m thinking that if i dont lift it water will remain on the bottom of the pot.
tnx

 

[GrimLore]

I have one more question,stupid could be:
When i water it goes down to the draining holes in about 10 seconds or so.
After that should i lift it up ,the pot, to drain all the remaining water or should i leave it like that ?
I,m thinking that if i dont lift it water will remain on the bottom of the pot.
tnx

If it continues to drain just more slowly it is ok. Some pots are not proper and have a pocket where water rests and I would avoid that - A simple way would be to tip the pot a bit on an angle. If your pot sits flat on the shelf put a chopstick or something on each side under it. We start a lot a plants in bulb pots and if we don't lift them a bit they do not drain properly. So I guess you need to look and see what works best for now

Grimmy

 

[boschetaru]

I actually made this"device"..i think it works.

 

[bonsaichile]

You are perfectlly right about my stubbornness
Atm i cannot change the "soil", i know there are better mixes but when i potted it i only had perlite.I watched some guy on youtube who did some testing on in/organic soils and perlite had about 36 percent loss, that is why i said it can retain some water.
Now,next spring i will mix perlite with european peat moss and pumice, but until then my hands are tied.
I will watch the leaves in the next days and see if they are wilting and then i will water again.
Tnx

Why keep using perlite? Your trees will be better off with a combination of lava, pumice and akadama or DE in a 1:1:1 proportion

 

[boschetaru]

I will buy some Akadama / lava and test them in spring on some trees(i have 2 more).
Perlite is cheaper and it promotes good root growth which i need on seedlings or collected trees.
Tnx

 

[Anthony]

You are allowed to add a few teaspoonfuls of peat moss or sifted
compost.
Peat Moss holds 15 times weight in Water
Compost holds 20 times weight in water.

This is what we do with trees in leca / marbles / hand rolled fired clay balls.
Just 3 teaspoons will change the water response.

Observe - chopsticks -
*****As usual test this idea on a cutting or expendable in the same soil mix
see how it works .
Good Day
Anthony

 

[boschetaru]

In percent how much peat moss should i add? like 10 percent or so?

 

[GrimLore]

You are allowed to add a few teaspoonfuls of peat moss or sifted
compost.
Peat Moss holds 15 times weight in Water
Compost holds 20 times weight in water.

That is a good idea for him and his needs

Perlite is cheaper and it promotes good root growth which i need on seedlings or collected trees.

Stick with organic type mix or mixes that drain well for growing. You can top it as you did the perlite to make it look nice of just leave it. Save the money for Akadama and such things for finished trees that you want alive but not growing rapidly.

That drain tray you made looks like it will work nicely for you

Grimmy

 

[Anthony]

@boschetaru ,

Please test idea on expendables.
You can go from 3 parts to 1 part peat moss
to inorganic - 7 parts to 9 parts.

I can give no more advice, as you have your climate
and your way of watering.

Additionally, you can also use the oil seed cakes sold
as fertiliser for finished Bonsai.
Just rest on the soil and they will as they decay compost.
As well as fertilising the trees.
Good Day
Anthony

* By the way try to use inorganics that can resist root pressure.

We use the silica based gravel at 5 mm. The stuff that is used
for sand blasting or concrete construction.