Wedge cut

sergy

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Can anyone explain what the wedge cut is please and how to do it?
I have a few 4-5 yo JBPs grown from seeds, most with straight trunks. I missed opportunities to add movement when they were younger. I hear one can use the wedge cut technique to bend thick trunks and branches on JBPs but I can't find any details about how to do it.
Cheers
 

sorce

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anyone explain what the wedge cut is please and how to do it?

Stupid and Don't!

Welcome to Crazy!

It's a physical impossibility to make it look good.

You can't build taper to it with no branch, there, and with a branch there you don't need to "wedge" it.

You're better off letting it grow for 5 years while perfecting grafting techniques.

Pics!

Sorce
 
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Seems to work on pines( I’ve only done pines so far)
I would recommend cutting 50-60% of the way through. Make sure to not cut it too wide, so that it will close nice and flush. Also if you do it closer to the trunk the lever will be longer and the bend will greater…relatively.
 

Lorax7

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How thick are the trunks? I find it rather difficult to believe that a 4 to 5 year old JBP is no longer bendy enough to put any movement in the trunk. Are you sure you don’t just need some thicker gauge copper wire, rebar, and a turnbuckle?
 

Lorax7

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This is JWP, not JBP, but anyway here’s a link to another thread with an example of bending a pine to an extent you might not have thought possible. I forgot to take a before picture at the very beginning prior to doing any bending. The tree was originally upright in the sort of typical Christmas tree shape that pines grow in when left on their own.

JBPs are pretty darn bendy as well. I would totally expect to be able to bend the trunk on a 4 to 5 year old JBP.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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It can work well if it is done right. Here are a few threads discussing it.



You can cut a wedge on the inside of a branch and bend it to close on itself. You can also make the wedge in the outside if a collar where a branch exits the trunk to get a very natural looking, sharp bend in a branch right where it comes off the trunk.

 

sergy

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How thick are the trunks? I find it rather difficult to believe that a 4 to 5 year old JBP is no longer bendy enough to put any movement in the trunk. Are you sure you don’t just need some thicker gauge copper wire, rebar, and a turnbuckle?
The trunks are 22-24 mm D, see a photo. As far as I know a wire should be 1/4-1/3 of branch diameter - which would mean ~7mm wire!!!
I can't imagine how it would be possible to bend a 23mm thick shortish trunk with a wire.
 

Potawatomi13

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Personally have found from same mistake JBP VERY stiff even like iron after 3 years. Need to notch same tree now 26 years old. Straight trunk section still rankles😣.
 

sergy

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This is JWP, not JBP, but anyway here’s a link to another thread with an example of bending a pine to an extent you might not have thought possible. I forgot to take a before picture at the very beginning prior to doing any bending. The tree was originally upright in the sort of typical Christmas tree shape that pines grow in when left on their own.

JBPs are pretty darn bendy as well. I would totally expect to be able to bend the trunk on a 4 to 5 year old JBP.
Hi - Thanks for the link. The plan for my pines is to keep them small, shohin size, 20-25 cm tall, so I'd like to have a sharp bend before the 1st branch, not a soft long bend like in your example.
Why do you think it's a JWP? I'm not a pro, just purchased a few "JBP" seeds online a few years ago and spend my leisure time trying to grow them into bonsai with as little intervention as possible. They have dark-green (not bluish-green) sharp needle in pairs at fascicles, not in five like JWP. They also respond with 2nd flush late summer/autumn if I decandle. Doesn't seem like JWP.
 

Lorax7

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The trunks are 22-24 mm D, see a photo. As far as I know a wire should be 1/4-1/3 of branch diameter - which would mean ~7mm wire!!!
I can't imagine how it would be possible to bend a 23mm thick shortish trunk with a wire.
You can use a thick gauge wire and double wrap. Look at the pictures in the other thread that I linked to and you’ll see what I mean. You can also use a branch splitter to make the trunk more bendy if it’s not flexible enough. Note: if you do use a branch splitter, wrapping with raffla is important to keep the trunk from drying out.
 

Lorax7

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Hi - Thanks for the link. The plan for my pines is to keep them small, shohin size, 20-25 cm tall, so I'd like to have a sharp bend before the 1st branch, not a soft long bend like in your example.
Why do you think it's a JWP? I'm not a pro, just purchased a few "JBP" seeds online a few years ago and spend my leisure time trying to grow them into bonsai with as little intervention as possible. They have dark-green (not bluish-green) sharp needle in pairs at fascicles, not in five like JWP. They also respond with 2nd flush late summer/autumn if I decandle. Doesn't seem like JWP.
I don’t think your tree is JWP. I meant that the tree in the example I linked to is a JWP.

As far as the bend goes, if the material you’re working with is much smaller, then yeah, doing a bend is going to be harder to do because of the shorter moment arm. You probably do have to do something more drastic, such as using a branch splitter or doing a wedge cut. Are you in a bonsai club in your area? If so, you may want to reach out to one of the more experienced members of the club about what you want to do. Odds are they’d be willing to help you figure out what technique will work best for your tree.
 

Dav4

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Hi - Thanks for the link. The plan for my pines is to keep them small, shohin size, 20-25 cm tall, so I'd like to have a sharp bend before the 1st branch, not a soft long bend like in your example.
Why do you think it's a JWP? I'm not a pro, just purchased a few "JBP" seeds online a few years ago and spend my leisure time trying to grow them into bonsai with as little intervention as possible. They have dark-green (not bluish-green) sharp needle in pairs at fascicles, not in five like JWP. They also respond with 2nd flush late summer/autumn if I decandle. Doesn't seem like JWP.
Truthfully, if your plan is to create shohin pines, the best course of action would be to start again with another batch of seedlings. Everything in a shohin is magnified, any blemish will stand out. Ideally, pine seedlings would be wired out between 1-2 years of age to get tight bends in the trunk. If you didn't already know, there's a contest here on this forum based on growing JBP from seeds and definitely worth a look... https://www.bonsainut.com/forums/the-2018-six-year-japanese-black-pine-contest.73/
 
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