Well documented JBP

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Funny, I submitted these photos to the styling advice thread of "Knowledge of Bonsai" and most of what I got was photography critique, including jokes about the fertilizer balls on the soil.

Not quite.

In your thread at KoB, Robert Steven made the first comment which was:

"I like the exposing root, but I prefer the angle of pic # 11105. I'd like to see the foliage after refinement. The two rocks are too symmetrical in size, shape and placement...
If the right side rock is bigger with different shape, it would tell something..."


I don't know if he was joking about the fert balls or if he did mistake them for rocks, what I do know was the following comments about the fert balls centered mostly on the wisdom of leaving them on the soil when submitting a tree for advice in a forum that Robert Steven moderates.

Peter Evans for example posted the following:

"No rocks here,

My question is WHY when sombody goes to to the effort of taking decent photographs of their trees to post they then neglect the basics of presentation, i.e. remove all hanging foliage and cleaning the pot etc.

However, i think that image 1174 shows the best potential and also shows a better pot size for this tree which would need to be a lot smaller."


In the same thread I posted the following:

"They are indeed fertilizer balls, which should have been removed for the photograph in order not to distract from the image presented. I believe Robert was being facetious.

In my opinion, this is still a immature tree needing refinement. The pot choice could be better, this needs a larger pot to give a sense of stability without overpowering the feminine form. For this tree, as it is, I would go with a higher quality pot, unglazed in a dark reddish/brown pot, round to emphasize the Literati like qualities and shallower to lend weight to the trunk.

For now, the needles are far to long for the size of the tree, making for a messy appearance as well as making the thin trunk (made visually thinner by dividing into roots) seem juvenile.

I think leaving the "exposed root" idea behind and making use of the roots for a root over rock style would add the visual weight to this image that is so desperately needed."


Then after you complained that your tree was being critqued instead of having advice offered, I posted the following:

"Not at all Chris, this is indeed the styling advice section, let me rephrase my comments to avoid confusion.

I would re-pot into a higher quality pot, unglazed in a dark reddish/brown pot, round to emphasize the Literati like qualities and shallower to lend weight to the trunk. A larger pot also to give a sense of stability without overpowering the feminine form. I would continue refinement to reduce the needle size, clean up the foliage, and continue ramification.

I would also (if possible) try to go the route of root over rock as the many exposed roots starting so high up lacks visual weight.

I apologize if my words were taken as a critique, being the styling advice section, I pointed out what I personally seen as weak areas so as to concentrate on strengthening them. I am sure each of us have our own views, these are mine.

As to the fertilizer balls...in training, in a flower pot, on display, taking care to offer a picture without distractions helps to avoid confusion, showcases the tree better, and makes it easy to concentrate on the subject. But we all know this and I am just as guilty of being lazy when it comes to photos."



I do not think jokes were made at all about the fert ball, you heard from Robert Steven and Peter Evans on your tree and you recieved many good suggestions. It was however obviously not what you were looking for, but valid information never-the-less.

The tree was not selected by Robert Steven for the critque section, most likely because of the way it was presented. Sorry.


Anyhow, I still think your best option with this tree is to go root over rock with it.

(For those who do not know, Robert Steven selects trees from the styling advice section at KoB to critque them in the critque section. He is doing what Walter used to do with the ask the master section at BT awhile back. Like Walter he is selective on the trees he chooses and also like Walter, he is quite qualified to critque.) http://www.knowledgeofbonsai.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=93


Will
 
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I wasn't complaining that my tree was being critiqued. I was complaining that my photography was being critiqued in a "styling advice" forum.

And the root over rock may be a valid suggestion with the right rock. If I ever find a rock that screams "wedge me in those roots!!!" I will certainly entertain the notion.
 

Ashbarns

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Tom ..Tachigi suggested using a carveable rock like tufa or feather rock to suit those hard to manipulate roots. I think that is very doable.

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That's a good idea, but do these rocks give a natural appearance after being worked? Do they have the strength to last for years?
 

Ashbarns

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I once had a Japanese Maple growing over a tufa rock and being a fairly young tree the roots were aggressively growing into the rock. The rock is still with me and has not shown signs of deteriorating. In the case of this pine being fairly old I don't think that sort of problem would present itself. As regards the natural look, this type of material weathers nicely with the passage of time.

Ash
 
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If a rock were to be used, it would have to be carveable, I would think. Or assembled as in a late issue of Bonsai Today. It's not out of the question, even after the tree's next transformation.
 
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Here are the new buds on the tree as of Sept. 8, 2007. The needles are open and lengthing a bit. There are some clues in the photos as to the specific technique. I got multiple buds on all the strong branches, 2-3 on medium strength branches, only 1 on a couple of weak branches, and on the weakest tips, I did not candle to allow them to gain strength.

I pulled all but 2-3 pairs of old needles on the strongest branches, and left progressively more as I got to weaker branches. But there are two more aspects to this technique, both of which you could surmise from the photos.
 

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irene_b

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Chris please explain the visual differences to this:
I pulled all but 2-3 pairs of old needles on the strongest branches, and left progressively more as I got to weaker branches.
Mom
 

irene_b

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Chris please bring this into the light..
There are some clues in the photos as to the specific technique.
But there are two more aspects to this technique, both of which you could surmise from the photos.
To the untrained eye please go into more details
Mom
 
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Chris please explain the visual differences to this:
I pulled all but 2-3 pairs of old needles on the strongest branches, and left progressively more as I got to weaker branches.
Mom

Okay, Irene:rolleyes:. The standard practice in ramifying JBP is to gauge the candles by strength and group them into four categories. The weakest are allowed to remain uncut. The ones that are a bit stronger are cut first, allowing them more time to extend new growth, which makes it stronger. The third group, a little stronger still, get cut about 10 days later. And finally we end with the strongest candles 10 days after that, which gives them less time to grow and so holds them back a bit.

I already stated that I candled all but the weakest buds on the same day. That day I also thinned remaining needles on each shoot. Where I cut the strongest candles, I left 2-3 pairs of needles. Where I cut the strong candles, 3-4 pairs were left. Where I cut weak candles, I left 4-5 pairs. And where I did not candle, I left all the needles. This serves the same purpose as cutting candles at different times. More needles draw more energy to the specific area, thereby strengthening it. So since I want to balance the energy of the tree, I pull needles.

The big advantage to this should be painfully obvious: I can cut all my candles needed at one go.
 
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Chris please bring this into the light..
There are some clues in the photos as to the specific technique.
But there are two more aspects to this technique, both of which you could surmise from the photos.
To the untrained eye please go into more details
Mom

Irene, I am going to ask you to look closely at the photos, especially the second one. I will give more information when I go to lunch and can check for more photos to upload.
 
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Wait, here's a pretty good one, I think!
 

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Sorry, Irene. I have been told that I am being a little "cryptic"...

So here's the poop...based on everything I have said so far, the traditional way to candle is to cut with your razor-sharp scissors perpendicular to the branch (flat as opposed to slanted in any way) at the very base of the candle. That means right down to the needles from last year, leaving no stub. It takes a little while to get competent at this, but you just have to think about it every time. Cutting on a slant will make the buds on the long side slightly stronger than on the other side, and what we want is balanced growth.

In this case, I am using needle plucking to hold back stronger areas, but I am also cutting differently. It's still straight across, but not right into the needles...
 

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Leaving a stub like this will draw some energy from the buds which form at the base of the candle. So to draw more energy, leave a longer stub. That means on the biggest candle I may leave a 10 mm stub, and less on less strong candles. This is easy to remember because the stronger the candle, the longer the "neck" with no needles, and part of that becomes your stub.

So what do we have so far? Cutting all candles at the same time, leaving more needles to push vigor where it's needed, and more stub to "suck" vigor from where it's not needed. One more energy balancing technique was used at the same time.

All the books tell you to rub off the excess buds as they become visible. But the fact is they draw energy from the others. So if I have 5 buds on one candle base, it was way too strong and they help regulate those buds. Leave them on until fall! The tree will regulate itself in this way.
 
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Results so far

So here is the tree after removing excess buds, stubs, needles, and fertilizer balls:rolleyes:.

I also trimmed a few needles for size although the tree didn't need it, it was only for photographic purposes. In areas that it would work against the tree, I left them long.
 

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irene_b

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Chris,
At what time of the year should a JBP be worked?
Mom
 

irene_b

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Chris,
Can you show a visual of old needles and new needles?
How can a person tell the difference between the two?
Mom
 
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Chris,
At what time of the year should a JBP be worked?
Mom

JBP are worked almost all year long. The first opportunity to wire and style is early spring before the candles start to move, usually late February or early March. This is also a good time to repot. Start feeding heavily except in the case of a repotted tree, then wait for 2-4 weeks. Feed with organic fertilizer. Place pellets or cakes every few inches around the pot, then 2 weeks later, put as many on again between the first. Two weeks later, replace the first ones, and repeat every two weeks until candling.

Candle your trees in mid to late June depending on your climate. Remove needles as mentioned earlier. Go later in warmer areas, sooner in cooler areas, and you will come to realize the best time for each tree and the needle size you need. Immediately remove all fertilizer. This will prevent the new buds from growing too big.

This is another good time to wire your pine because there are no delicate buds to break off. After the new buds open and needles harden off, around September, begin feeding again at about half the strength you did in spring. This will prepare the tree for budding in spring. You can wire in late fall if you can keep the tree from freezing for the winter. Freezing allows moisture to enter the cracks in the bark and cause damage from the ice.

This is also the time to remove excess buds, prune lightly if needed, and remove more old needles and some new ones with the view of further balancing the energy.

Fall is soji (cleanup) time and a good time. This will involve cleaning up the top of the soil, removing excess needles, etc., and spraying with dormant spray. Soji deserves its own thread.

And so the tree sleeps until spring, ready to feed again.
 
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Chris,
Can you show a visual of old needles and new needles?
How can a person tell the difference between the two?
Mom

Pines are deciduous trees whose leaves (needles) have a three year lifespan. On the tree in the first photo, you can see new buds at the tip and old needles farther down. In the second photo, you can see a new candle just before candling, and just below you see last season's needles. These are the old needles of which we speak. Needles from the season before should have been removed from the tree. They are yellower and more brittle and do little but harbor insects and block light.
 

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irene_b

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Chris, when you speak of different climate are you talking about when the weather is hot?
Candle your trees in mid to late June depending on your climate.
Another question to regarding cutting...Don't they bleed?
Mom
 
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