"We're going to prune this juniper to promote tons of back budding over the next growing season....."

just.wing.it

Deadwood Head
Messages
10,329
Reaction score
13,407
Location
Just South of the Mason Dixon
USDA Zone
6B
I've heard this particular phrase stated by various well respected professionals in online videos....

What does this mean?
...to prune a juniper to create back budding....
Isn't that what we always want?
Are they referring to something different?
Is there a type of pruning that one might do to not promote back budding? Why?
Am I reading too much into this?....

I will say that this phrase is usually in reference to a collected juniper after an initial styling.
 

Victorim

Omono
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
2,019
Location
Carmarthenshire, Wales, UK
USDA Zone
9b
Pruning over normal limits, which you'd normally stick to to avoid too much juvenile growth, in favour of back budding I'd have thought bud.
 

just.wing.it

Deadwood Head
Messages
10,329
Reaction score
13,407
Location
Just South of the Mason Dixon
USDA Zone
6B
Pruning over normal limits, which you'd normally stick to to avoid too much juvenile growth, in favour of back budding I'd have thought bud.
You mean going hard, hard pruning?
I would think, to avoid juvenile growth, one may only prune off tips, and selectively prune unwanted growth....but hard pruning seems more likley to produce juvenile growth.
 

Victorim

Omono
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
2,019
Location
Carmarthenshire, Wales, UK
USDA Zone
9b
Yeah you'd go hard if it's wanting to go and your wanting to create options. Aggressive in the same way on a developing juniper will sprout all sorts of crap everywhere. Wasted growth when it's further along.
 

Gsquared

Shohin
Messages
380
Reaction score
1,130
Location
Portland (ish), OR
USDA Zone
8B
Also depends on the type of juniper: foemina will always have juvenile foliage, San Jose tends to have a mix and reverts to juvenile with little provocation. Regular shimpaku can back bud and only have a tiny bit of juvenile foliage (1/4-1/2 inch, often less) before it puts out regular. Itoigawa tends to back bud with juvenile foliage, but it converts to regular fairly soon, not nearly as fast as plain shimpaku, but they are worth the season it takes to grow out.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

Masterpiece
Messages
2,650
Reaction score
3,799
Location
Netherlands
I did a huge cut back on some media/pfizers last year. Basically leaving just the bare trunk. It's connected to another trunk, and they're bot alive. But I don't see any budding.
I've seen the videos too! But it seems not every juniper is that keen on budding from old wood.
I myself go for the safe option: grafting. It's easier than I thought.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
25,198
Reaction score
33,374
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
We put backbudding as a word on a pedestal and don't understand how many different meanings it has.

The many different out comes for the meaning...

and the different uses for the outcomes of the meanings.

That's a minimum of nine possible different situations, with Juniper Alone....

But...

Ahhhh...fucking backbudding...blah blah blah....like moron robots!

No offense of course.

It's ridiculous. <Trigger!

You know what produces this? The "school" of "do without knowing why".

Sorce
 

augustine

Chumono
Messages
718
Reaction score
533
Location
Pasadena, MD
USDA Zone
7A
Don’t we prune the terminal growth to encourage backbudding closer to trunk and leave plenty of active tips?
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
25,198
Reaction score
33,374
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Don’t we prune the terminal growth to encourage backbudding closer to trunk and leave plenty of active tips?
Define terminal growth.
How closer to the trunk?
Are we doing this for design of the cut branch or health of the branch below the cut branch?

Sorce
 

leatherback

Masterpiece
Messages
4,645
Reaction score
7,370
Location
Northern Germany
USDA Zone
7
As far as I knowl you only get new growth on old wood if you give the wood sun, and further along the branch you build massive amounts of sap pull through extension growth. Pruning then might trigger buds popping up.

Cutting back a recently collected juniper.. I do not see how that would trigger budding on older wood. If someone does, please explain :|
 

just.wing.it

Deadwood Head
Messages
10,329
Reaction score
13,407
Location
Just South of the Mason Dixon
USDA Zone
6B
As far as I knowl you only get new growth on old wood if you give the wood sun, and further along the branch you build massive amounts of sap pull through extension growth. Pruning then might trigger buds popping up.

Cutting back a recently collected juniper.. I do not see how that would trigger budding on older wood. If someone does, please explain :|
Not recently collected, collected and ready for initial styling.

I think I'm reading into the words too much.
 

leatherback

Masterpiece
Messages
4,645
Reaction score
7,370
Location
Northern Germany
USDA Zone
7
I think I'm reading into the words too much.
Nope. Words are important. I choose mine fairly carefully to make sure I wrote what I meant :)

I would say yeah, you do have two ways to prune. The regular maintenance. Opening up, wiring out ladelyla.. And you can prune to "push" the tree? Take away the long runners which have really created a lot of flow to the branch. Removing a large proportion in an attempt to get buds near the trunk to start growing, in presence of so much sapflow and so little to hold them back.

e.g., recently dug tree which blew over in a storm, laying about for a few days and loosing loads of inner foliage. Let to grow for a year, then next year cut back hard resulting in all sorts of little whips showing up in crotches
20190320_R14A1350.jpg

The resulting growth gives a place to trim back to
20180702-77.jpg

Not sure if this is what you mean but this is what I did and which gave me enough to give this tree a first real wiring this year.
 

just.wing.it

Deadwood Head
Messages
10,329
Reaction score
13,407
Location
Just South of the Mason Dixon
USDA Zone
6B
Take away the long runners which have really created a lot of flow to the branch. Removing a large proportion in an attempt to get buds near the trunk to start growing, in presence of so much sapflow and so little to hold them back.
I'm wondering if this is what some mean with the phraseology.

I appreciate your time @leatherback thank you
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
25,198
Reaction score
33,374
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
@leatherback I was literally coming here to complain about this title again. Just after another reading.

Pruning doesn't promote backbudding "over the next growing season".

It promotes backbudding, I would argue, at the next regular scheduled flush of growth.

Letting a tree grow all year, will promote backbudding over the next season.

For me,

Growth promotes.

Pruning Activates.

And Pruning back to utilizes.

Sorce
 

just.wing.it

Deadwood Head
Messages
10,329
Reaction score
13,407
Location
Just South of the Mason Dixon
USDA Zone
6B
@leatherback I was literally coming here to complain about this title again. Just after another reading.

Pruning doesn't promote backbudding "over the next growing season".

It promotes backbudding, I would argue, at the next regular scheduled flush of growth.

Letting a tree grow all year, will promote backbudding over the next season.

For me,

Growth promotes.

Pruning Activates.

And Pruning back to utilizes.

Sorce
Well said, sir!
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
25,198
Reaction score
33,374
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Well said, sir!
It makes a difference right?

I think this is why @Owen Reich we also have problems.

These little vocabulary hiccups cause many.

Yesterday, I was also thinking about how we regularly answer questions about trees not knowing ANYTHING about it.

So listed are then 12 great answers, but on the next page we find out it's an azalea and everything changes.

Yet, the new reader, also has answer to his question, but his tree was a pine!

We generate miseducation here BY ACCIDENT, like a thousand times more than anyone actually shares bad information.

It's a completely backwards system.

I walk in reverse.

Sorce
 
Top Bottom