What are you working on?

[mcpesq817]

I recently pruned back an amur maple forest, did a little jin and guy wire work on a collected Engelmann spruce, and have been working on a few junipers (thinning out, styling, etc.). Between work and having three-month old twins at home, like others, I have had limited time to play with my trees this year

I decandled my JBPs last year around this time and the needles were a bit longer than I was hoping (they are shohin/chuhin size). I'm going to try decandling next week.

 

[Dav4]

Between work and having three-month old twins at home, like others, I have had limited time to play with my trees this year

Wow, the fact you're physically and mentally able to log onto your computer at 9 in the morning is exceptional in my book. I love being a father, but I really can't say I miss the 2 AM feedings much.

Good luck with the expanded family and the new dynamic it brings to the bonsai hobby.

 

[Poink88]

Between work and having three-month old twins at home, like others, I have had limited time to play with my trees this year

Wow, the fact you're physically and mentally able to log onto your computer at 9 in the morning is exceptional in my book. I love being a father, but I really can't say I miss the 2 AM feedings much.

Good luck with the expanded family and the new dynamic it brings to the bonsai hobby.

I agree. It's been a long while for me and I am lucky that my wife took most of the responsibility but know how "taxing" it can be. The few times I have to step in when my daughter (or wife) was sick...I am basically a zombie at work. I cannot even imagine handling twins...I know it is not just twice as difficult.

In a decade or so, you will have a couple apprentice to help you though.

 

[Adair M]

Judy,

First you have to have a complete understanding of each of the two decandling methods.

3 step: Divide the tree into three "zones". Strong, medium, and weak growth areas. (Actually 4 areas: add "really weak" zones. You don't decandle anything in the "really weak" zones.) Note that a single branch can have branchlets in each "zone".

Note: Determining the "zones" is used in both the 3 step and 1 step method.

Continuing the 3 step... decandle the weak zone. Cut the entire candle off at the base of the candle. Cut it straight across. Not angled. Leave a tiny collar. Don't cut back into old wood, if you do, you're cutting off the dormant adventitious buds you want to grow.

The weak zone candles are usually on the bottom of the tree, and/or candles growing near the trunk. Usually, the top of the tree is the strongest, so you would not expect to find weak buds up there. However, on highly refined trees, where interior backbudding is occurring, it's possible to find some weak buds even up in the crown.

Once you have decandled the weak buds, wait 10 days to 2 weeks and go back and repeat the process for the medium strength candles. Leave the strong ones.

Wait 10 days to 2 weeks, and go back and decandle the strong buds. Again, making sure to remove all the candle, but leaving a collar.

The idea behind the 3 step method is to give the weak buds longer to develop before fall arrives and the tree goes dormant. Your goal is to have all the needles be the same length at the end of the growing season. And have the bottom branches have the same apparent vigor as the crown. This is what we call a "balanced" tree. All the vigor (energy) is spread evenly across the tree.

1 Step Method:

This method uses the auxins already present to inhibit (delay) the development of the adventitious buds on the strong and medium branches, and allows us to do everything in one sitting. That way, you don't have to do each tree 3 times. The disadvantage is it leaves little stubs that should be removed somtime in the future. I do it as a part of fall work.

Divide the tree into zones as described above, and starting at the top, decandle the strong buds, and leave a bit of the stem. The auxins in the stem will remain active until the stem dries up. Which takes a couple of weeks. The longer the stem, the longer the auxins remain active. Be sure to remove all needles. Generally, only leave about 1/2 inch for the strong candles, about 1/4 inch for the mediums and only leave a collar for the weakest. Work down from the top. On those stems where there may be multiple candles growing from one spot, decandle them all. Again, leave the strongest longer, and the secondarys shorter.

Work your way down the tree, making sure to leave stubs consistant with the length you started with at the top. The terminal candles on a branch may be just as strong as candles in the crown. You want to leave the same amount of stub on those as you did in the crown.

To combine the two methods, you can do the 3 step, but instead of cutting them off completely at the collar, leave a little stub. Generally, you wouldn't do this on the weak candles, but you might on the mediums and strongs. You can vary the amount of stub you leave to be really precise so that you can give one branch (or secondary branch) more energy than another.

At Boon's we do the one step method. He has trees in all stages of development, including the most highly refined JBP I've ever seen. Based upon the results I've seen there, I'm going to stick with the one step method. Experience will teach you how much stub to leave to get the results you want.

 

[Adair M]

Needle pulling when decandling:

Again, the purpose is to balance the energy. So, after decandling using the 1 step method, we sit back and study the tree. We want the needle density to be the same, crown, middle and base (lowest branches). So, we look at the tree, and determine which part needs to be thinned (weakened) to match the weakest part of the tree.

So, the first step is to determine if the stongest (thickest) sections of the tree have too many branchlets and need to be cut out. Once you do that, it's time to pull needles.

Let's assume a normal case where the crown is the thickest part, and the lower branches are weaker. The strong twigs maybe leave 3 or 5 pairs of needles. Medium strength twigs leave 5 to 7 pairs, and weak areas 7 to 11 pairs.

Again, once you choose a "thinning" strategy (5, 7, 9), for example, apply it throughout the tree. Since you will most likely have more strong shoots at the crown, typically you will remove more needles from the crown's shoots than you would lower down.

Again, at the end, the goal is to have the needle density equal throughout the tree.

 

[JudyB]

Thanks for that explanation. Interesting idea combining the two "step" procedures. Makes sense though. I use the 1 step, seems pretty foolproof...
And I had thought that needle pulling was done later in the year, didn't know it was something that was done at candling as well. But as you say, this is probably more for refined trees, which is nowhere near my neighborhood!

 

[MidMichBonsai]

For those of you interested in a thorough explanation of decandling and pine development take a look at these videos from Ryan Neil's lecture at Willowbog this past Winter. It further explains what Adair is talking about. It is the best explanation of not only how but why to train pines that I have seen. The first video is for 2-flush pines (Japanese Red and Black).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn1FiRw2JBo

The second is for single flush pines which are what we mostly have in North America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Y6j2wgI2U

Listen carefully because many of the concepts/principles are the same but the actual "doing" is very different.

Cheers!

 

[mcpesq817]

Wow, the fact you're physically and mentally able to log onto your computer at 9 in the morning is exceptional in my book. I love being a father, but I really can't say I miss the 2 AM feedings much.

Good luck with the expanded family and the new dynamic it brings to the bonsai hobby.

I agree. It's been a long while for me and I am lucky that my wife took most of the responsibility but know how "taxing" it can be. The few times I have to step in when my daughter (or wife) was sick...I am basically a zombie at work. I cannot even imagine handling twins...I know it is not just twice as difficult.

In a decade or so, you will have a couple apprentice to help you though.

Thanks Dav4 and Dario. I actually have a 3 year old as well, so I've just given up on sleep and my general sanity for the next few years (who needs them anyway). It's just taught me to be a lot more efficient with my time, multitask and not watch that much TV. I wouldn't have it any other way, as kids are a real blessing.

Dario, you're right about having apprentices - my daughter likes helping with watering, but I think she has more fun trying to spray me with the hose than actually watering my trees

 

[Poink88]

Dario, you're right about having apprentices - my daughter likes helping with watering, but I think she has more fun trying to spray me with the hose than actually watering my trees

LOL. I can relate. My daughter (9 yo) begs me regularly to wash the car, but as you said, she likes playing with the hose more than washing actually (spraying me and her mom). Silly but cheap fun though and great bonding times as well.

 

[Adair M]

MidMich,
6
No doubt Ryan is an expert on JBP. And the lecture he gave is excellent. But, there's no way he can tell everything he knows about JBP and decandling in 45 minutes. There's more to it than that.

You know the part of his lecture where he says to cut back to two branches, always two? And how each year after decandling you will add two more branches? So that after 4 years you have 16 branches? Well... that's true to a point. That explanation totally ignores "top branches". If branches only had two side branches, when you look at them from above, there would just be grey wood structure, and then needles around the perimeter. But that's not what the great trees have at all. Yes, they have the structure, but they also have little branches off the top of the central branches. These give the branch depth (height), and fullness. And eventually, you will have to cut back to one of those top branches as your branches get too long. If you don't have anything to cut back to, your primary branches just keep getting longer and longer.

There's just no way that Ryan can go into that level of detail in a lecture like that without confusing everyone.

That's where a program like Boon's Intensives really shines. The trees are really advanced so you can actually see how it works. We spent 3 days decandling trees. And next year, we'll do it again. And the year after that. By then, I'll start to get pretty good at it. At least, I hope so.

Ryan has a training school, too, I think. I'm sure his students learn the advanced techniques and concepts that he just doesn't have time to talk about in an introductory lecture.

 

[MidMichBonsai]

MidMich,
6
No doubt Ryan is an expert on JBP. And the lecture he gave is excellent. But, there's no way he can tell everything he knows about JBP and decandling in 45 minutes. There's more to it than that.

You know the part of his lecture where he says to cut back to two branches, always two? And how each year after decandling you will add two more branches? So that after 4 years you have 16 branches? Well... that's true to a point. That explanation totally ignores "top branches". If branches only had two side branches, when you look at them from above, there would just be grey wood structure, and then needles around the perimeter. But that's not what the great trees have at all. Yes, they have the structure, but they also have little branches off the top of the central branches. These give the branch depth (height), and fullness. And eventually, you will have to cut back to one of those top branches as your branches get too long. If you don't have anything to cut back to, your primary branches just keep getting longer and longer.

There's just no way that Ryan can go into that level of detail in a lecture like that without confusing everyone.

That's where a program like Boon's Intensives really shines. The trees are really advanced so you can actually see how it works. We spent 3 days decandling trees. And next year, we'll do it again. And the year after that. By then, I'll start to get pretty good at it. At least, I hope so.

Ryan has a training school, too, I think. I'm sure his students learn the advanced techniques and concepts that he just doesn't have time to talk about in an introductory lecture.

I agree with absolutely everything you said. I was not trying to insinuate that a 45min. lecture is better than a 3 day hands on seminar nor that it could cover all aspects of training pines. But, this lecture does provide more information and background then what can be typed in a forum, which is how we are learning /dialoging in this context.

My aim was not to instruct you, as I'm quite certain you are my superior in all varieties of bonsai not just pines, but rather to say, "Those of you asking questions, Adair is nailing the answers to your questions and if you want more information, this might be helpful to further explain what Adair is talking about."

Best to you and thanks for your help to all of us. I looking forward to continue to learn from you and others who are more experienced than me as I continue to develop my love and craft in bonsai.

 

[Adair M]

Lol, midmich!

I'm not superior to anyone! I have had the privilege of studying with Boon, and I'm trying to share what I've learned.

 

[Duhend]

Watching and waiting, patience is a virtue right? Once a week I have to take my clippers from my girlfriend who thinks my two Ulmus constantly need hair cuts. She cut off a bunch of stuff one day while I was a work, not happy. So I got an Ulmus for her to chop...

I've been looking around online trying to find a Bonsai group here local as well, I can learn a lot from on the knowledge on the forums here, but you just can't beat hands on stuff.

I've also been encountering spider mites as well, this is my first summer with deciduous bonsai and its proving to be a battle of the wills.....

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Is that the Ume from Brent you mentioned getting a few years ago that is now like 10 feet tall? if so, can you post a pic of it?

As for me, i'm not doing much of anything. Water, fertilize, stare. just letting things grow for now. A few weeks til mugo chop time.

Here are some better shots of this ume from Brent; IIRC, I cut it back about 2 weeks ago, so what you see is one continuous trunk. It is just showing new buds around the cuts, so I might be able to do a chop and get growth down low. At the highest, main cut; around 4' tall:


At a lower branch, popping from the back side, and just below the cut toward the right:


And here is the base:

 

[Adair M]

For those that want to see some photos of JBP decandling technique, see Jonas's blog, Bonsai Tonight. He has been posting short articles for about a month on the various techniques, showing strong shoots, weak shoots, good cuts, bad cuts, etc. Even has photos of needle pulling!