What is Politics?

[just.wing.it]

This is a good question that we all need to ask ourselves.
The way I see it, pointing to news outlets who are serious about the truth in any situation is not a political act....except in the sense that politics is only how we interact as a people.

If people can't speak to one another in a serious way, then society itself is toast.....
What's the point? ....We all go home at the end of everyday with "our truths", with no real idea about what actually IS?

Reality is not something that we can simply ignore and pretend doesn't exist.... Politics is reality, it does affect you.

Politics is not simply about ideology. Its how we communicate, its just a word used to describe how humans interact in Public. It comes from the Greek, Polis....a city....where people are, together, acting in public.

Its not a dirty word. There are dirty political ideologies however, and if we intend to remain the free, liberty loving people who grow bonsai for fun, then serious "political" conversations, discussions and arguments are worth having.....even here.

Covid 19 is not a political issue in the sense that it doesn't care about your political ideology, but it is political is terms of how it affects us all.
If we can't simply point out news articles and ask questions.....then we're all doomed. Might as well just trim my trees while the world burns around me, right?

Its not about ideology, or voting....its about truth.
"Your Truth" isn't...... Reality is truth on Earth.
Reality reasserts itself in the end.
Even if its decades after were all dead, the truth comes out eventually and reality wins.

If everyone here wants me gone, that's fine, I'll go without a fight. But I don't see the point..... if one can't watch TV or sports, or go to a restaurant, or have a conversation about the day's news regarding the worst global event to happen in our lifetimes, with out being beaten up for having a pro-truth point of veiw, then.....well, maybe I should go. Maybe I'm a generation or 2 late to this party.

 

[Cadillactaste]

End of the day...this group is about Bonsai yes? Why allow opinions of politics make you leave?

I don't discuss politics...my opinion is strong enough to not make me sway. As is anyone else of a different view. End of the day...it doesn't define us unless we choose to allow it. We have something in common...love of bonsai. I don't care if you have the same belief as I...or opposing when it comes to politics. End of the day...it's as important as what brand of toilet paper you use. Doesn't matter to me.

THIS/BONSAI...is what we have in common. I've dealt with a lot over the past year. I feel I've crawled through hell and back again. Finally finding peace again... that peace is worth more to me than one hearing my opinion of politics. There was a time over this past year...I was fearful to even water my bonsai in the greenhouse... politics is trivial with the bigger things I faced.


Bonsai...that's what we all have in common. Let's keep it easy. I have no issue with you. But...I am striving to find peace in my day.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Which means...I tend to stay out of political threads. I can do that with no qualms.

Assuming this stemmed from a thread being closed. Which was why I opened this to see what it said. Curiosity...kills the cat.

 

[just.wing.it]

End of the day...this group is about Bonsai yes? Why allow opinions of politics make you leave?

I don't discuss politics...my opinion is strong enough to not make me sway. As is anyone else of a different view. End of the day...it doesn't define us unless we choose to allow it. We have something in common...love of bonsai. I don't care if you have the same belief as I...or opposing when it comes to politics. End of the day...it's as important as what brand of toilet paper you use. Doesn't matter to me.

THIS/BONSAI...is what we have in common. I've dealt with a lot over the past year. I feel I've crawled through hell and back again. Finally finding peace again... that peace is worth more to me than one hearing my opinion of politics. There was a time over this past year...I was fearful to even water my bonsai in the greenhouse... politics is trivial with the bigger things I faced.


Bonsai...that's what we all have in common. Let's keep it easy. I have no issue with you. But...I am striving to find peace in my day.
View attachment 379599

That's how I used to feel too, and then I had kids.

 

[just.wing.it]

Got to shout from every rooftop.

 

[Cadillactaste]

That's how I used to feel too, and then I had kids.

I've grown adults for kids..we vote.

I get many like to discuss politics. I'm not one to try and make my views another's. Nor beat my head against the wall waisting energy trying to get one to see my point.

I don't think any differently for your stance. That's you. Just as...I am me. I would hate to see you leave. Take care...I'm out of this thread. Because I just don't do politics. I also didn't read as to why the one thread was closed. Other than over politics. Which was a rabbit hole from the title topic. I didn't look back to read the context, as I don't do politics in social media platforms.

Have a wonderful day.

 

[just.wing.it]

It's not about forcing my views on any one. That's what the leftists do....thats part of my point.
All I'm doing is posting a link to a bit of real news regarding the global pandemic that has impacted all of us.....and that's political?

This is the problem.

Its actually a Marxist tactic to make all things political except what is actually political.

I can't just ignore stuff. The future is too important to me. All I want is for people to see the information and make their own decisions.
Thats a far stretch from forcing my views on others. Again....its not about ideology or voting.....not at this point.

Everyone knows the lab leaked the virus.

Denying it, has always been like walking in a McDonald's parking lot and seeing McDonald's burger wrapper on the ground and saying, "wow, I bet that McDonald's wrapper just materialized there naturally....couldn't have anything to do with that McDonald's restaurant right there. I mean c'mon, don't be silly." ....and being totally serious about it to the point that you are ok with shutting down free speech over it.

I know this is not a debate stage, and private businesses like Bonsai Nut can do as they please in terms of silencing truth....but that does not mean that I have to accept that or be ok with it.

And again....I'm not doing anything political here. Its just the truth.

Although.....nothing gets one into trouble quite like the truth these days....and that's the problem.

So many lies. So much data manipulation.
What's going on with Fauci is akin to what went on in the Soviet Union with Stalin and Lysenko....
Lysenkoism on the health'scare' front.

 

[just.wing.it]

I didn't know current events that happen 18 months ago....but are now current because of a fraudulent media.....and history were political.

 

[Mapleminx]

End of the day...this group is about Bonsai yes? Why allow opinions of politics make you leave?

I don't discuss politics...my opinion is strong enough to not make me sway. As is anyone else of a different view. End of the day...it doesn't define us unless we choose to allow it. We have something in common...love of bonsai. I don't care if you have the same belief as I...or opposing when it comes to politics. End of the day...it's as important as what brand of toilet paper you use. Doesn't matter to me.

THIS/BONSAI...is what we have in common. I've dealt with a lot over the past year. I feel I've crawled through hell and back again. Finally finding peace again... that peace is worth more to me than one hearing my opinion of politics. There was a time over this past year...I was fearful to even water my bonsai in the greenhouse... politics is trivial with the bigger things I faced.


Bonsai...that's what we all have in common. Let's keep it easy. I have no issue with you. But...I am striving to find peace in my day.
View attachment 379599

I never ever get tired of seeing that goooooorgeous tree

 

[just.wing.it]

It is a very nice tree, indeed.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I don't have any problem discussing politics... just not here.

In the early days of this web site, I allowed political discourse. Pretty soon the political threads had more traffic than the bonsai threads. Unfortunately the political threads were NOT about politics, per se, but about people yelling at and belittling each other. The site started to have a toxic feel to it - one that did not represent what bonsai means to me, or why I enjoy the bonsai community. Bottom line, I like how bonsai can bring people together - people from all over the world and from extremely different backgrounds and cultures. The political discussions were tearing people apart. So I decided there are plenty of other places on the Internet where people can go and yell at each other, so why bring it here?

Originally, the goal of political discourse was to effectively bring people around to your point of thinking - to convince them of the rightness of your position. Now people seem intent on winning votes by spreading hatred, as in "vote for me if you hate these people or this position as much as I do". A discussion of exclusion instead of inclusion. So... I'd prefer to have that conversation occur somewhere else.

 

[just.wing.it]

Well enough.

 

[HorseloverFat]

“Politics” is the title of one of the first songs I ever wrote!

Punk ROCK!!!

 

[Starfox]

“Politics” is the title of one of the first songs I ever wrote!

Punk ROCK!!!

Is Greg Graffin aware of this?

Or maybe?.......

 

[HorseloverFat]

Is Greg Graffin aware of this?

Or maybe?.......

I think it was 2002 I wrote it.. PRETTY sure Bad Religion did it first.. I was pretty young.. and unaware of THAT bad religion song.

 

[ShadyStump]

Originally, the goal of political discourse was to effectively bring people around to your point of thinking - to convince them of the rightness of your position. Now people seem intent on winning votes by spreading hatred, as in "vote for me if you hate these people or this position as much as I do". A discussion of exclusion instead of inclusion. So... I'd prefer to have that conversation occur somewhere else.

I'd have said it this way: the purpose of discussing politics is to determine what our society's problems and strengths are, and how to best solve those problems by implementing our strengths.
Unfortunately, the present strategies of politicians revolve around propaganda campaigns encouraging people to speculate on the morality of anyone who disagrees. In that environment, there are no facts or universal truths to consider, so no, there's very little room for discussion of problems and solutions.
@Bonsai Nut has allowed a few threads to go on for some time to test his own policy, and I've noticed that in those situations he locks them when they reach a certain threshold of personal attacks vs actual discussion.
I admire the way he's handled it, and respect how he manages the policy on politics, specially during last year's utter cluster fuck of an American election year.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

The main issue with discussing politics is that it never ends in a discussion. It has become a slander game; murder the opponent with words, any words, instead of fueling your arguments with solid reason.

I love all of you guys, sincerely. And I'm sometimes appalled or amazed by what you guys manage to write down and post. Some people over here hate me because I have certain political standpoints. But they tend to forget that we agree on 95% of all other things. The people in charge, the ones higher up, are setting a piss poor example of how we humans should interact. And as long as we follow this trend, I'll stay far from political discussions with US nationals because your system inherently makes you pick a side and stand by it. It seems that your culture has molded you to do so and it saddens me. I value people based on their character. Their political standpoints do not define their character at all. Unless they decide it does. And when that's the case, I'm out. If that's the best you can do as a person, go suck a carpet-dust covered lollypop somewhere in a corner and get out of my face.
One of my old time friends from the US never wants to talk to me - and almost wanted to beat the crap out of me - because I didn't understand why he'd vote for Trump. He didn't want to explain, he just called me a lefty and left. Another friend doesn't talk to me anymore because I didn't understand why he'd voted Hillary. Same story here.
I mean, what the hell are you people doing over there?

When I disagree with people, we disagree. That's it. I'm not going to leave a friggin nice diner because somebody thinks our politicians should provide financial handouts to the local mushroom farmer's goat problem. We vote, and then we go back to hating everyone equally. That's how we roll in Northern Europe. Friend or enemy, that's what we choose based on character. Politics come last.. That's a once every four years thing.. In our culture we speak up when we don't like something, and that is that.

I'm all game discussing the lab theory. I've worked with the top Chinese students, I even got some of the first warnings directly from a Chinese virologist in China, I've been inside pharmaceutical plants, I've seen some vaccine development first hand.
Seriously, I'll bite and have a talk. But why does this shit have to come up? Why the labeling? Why the "oh those guys, you're one of them, look at what they do! And I'm not a part of that!"?

Politics doesn't even have to be involved. Unless you believe it does. Then I'm out. The truth isn't bound to a party, neither are the lies. It's diffused equally over the entire spectrum, nationally and internationally. As long as you can't see that, I don't see anything pro-truth. I see well crafted doctrines and people clawing their way deeper in thinking they're on the verge of discovering whatever they were promised by the person who made the doctrine. A waste of time and effort. And in your cases, it actually hurts your reputation.
I don't even know what my friends voted for, and quite frankly I don't care; they voted for their own reasons, like they should.. I have different reasons. Theirs don't outweigh mine and vice versa. I consider you guys my friends too. Because of your character. Unless you choose differently.

 

[ShadyStump]

The main issue with discussing politics is that it never ends in a discussion. It has become a slander game; murder the opponent with words, any words, instead of fueling your arguments with solid reason.

I love all of you guys, sincerely. And I'm sometimes appalled or amazed by what you guys manage to write down and post. Some people over here hate me because I have certain political standpoints. But they tend to forget that we agree on 95% of all other things. The people in charge, the ones higher up, are setting a piss poor example of how we humans should interact. And as long as we follow this trend, I'll stay far from political discussions with US nationals because your system inherently makes you pick a side and stand by it. It seems that your culture has molded you to do so and it saddens me. I value people based on their character. Their political standpoints do not define their character at all. Unless they decide it does. And when that's the case, I'm out. If that's the best you can do as a person, go suck a carpet-dust covered lollypop somewhere in a corner and get out of my face.
One of my old time friends from the US never wants to talk to me - and almost wanted to beat the crap out of me - because I didn't understand why he'd vote for Trump. He didn't want to explain, he just called me a lefty and left. Another friend doesn't talk to me anymore because I didn't understand why he'd voted Hillary. Same story here.
I mean, what the hell are you people doing over there?

When I disagree with people, we disagree. That's it. I'm not going to leave a friggin nice diner because somebody thinks our politicians should provide financial handouts to the local mushroom farmer's goat problem. We vote, and then we go back to hating everyone equally. That's how we roll in Northern Europe. Friend or enemy, that's what we choose based on character. Politics come last.. That's a once every four years thing.. In our culture we speak up when we don't like something, and that is that.

I'm all game discussing the lab theory. I've worked with the top Chinese students, I even got some of the first warnings directly from a Chinese virologist in China, I've been inside pharmaceutical plants, I've seen some vaccine development first hand.
Seriously, I'll bite and have a talk. But why does this shit have to come up? Why the labeling? Why the "oh those guys, you're one of them, look at what they do! And I'm not a part of that!"?

Politics doesn't even have to be involved. Unless you believe it does. Then I'm out. The truth isn't bound to a party, neither are the lies. It's diffused equally over the entire spectrum, nationally and internationally. As long as you can't see that, I don't see anything pro-truth. I see well crafted doctrines and people clawing their way deeper in thinking they're on the verge of discovering whatever they were promised by the person who made the doctrine. A waste of time and effort. And in your cases, it actually hurts your reputation.
I don't even know what my friends voted for, and quite frankly I don't care; they voted for their own reasons, like they should.. I have different reasons. Theirs don't outweigh mine and vice versa. I consider you guys my friends too. Because of your character. Unless you choose differently.

EXACTLY!

 

[just.wing.it]

Why are media and democrats denying Cubans fleeing communism entry into the US while they flood the Southern border with others?

Not a slander game, an honest question....

Barry Hussein from Honolulu (from Chicago, from Indonesia, from Kenya, from the outter reaches of a distant galaxy far from Liberty and Freedom) coddled the Dictatorship in Cuba too.

Politics is gross isn't it....

 

[just.wing.it]

Politics doesn't even have to be involved.

.....unless the govt controls you and your job.....and everything else.....which is right where we (US) are heading while we ignore Cubans who are seeking freedom from leftist tyrants.