What is your ideal aftercare set up?

[yenling83]

This is a long question, feel free to only answer what you would like and be as short or in detail as you would like. As with anything in Bonsai there are tons of different opinions on aftercare, hopefully this can generate some new ideas and show what others are doing. Please share any experiences you’ve had both positive and negative with aftercare situations.

What is the ultimate aftercare situation for collected conifers within a realistic price range and why? Let’s say you have $3,000 you could spend if needed on everything. However you’d rather save than spend if possible.

Some points to touch on:

1. Structure-What type of environment would you create for the trees to be in? Greenhouse, shade structure, full sun/partial shade, no structure? What materials would you use and why? What temperatures are ideal inside your structure? If out on your bench-shade, partial shade or full sun? What else would you need in a greenhouse-fans, pest/disease control?

2. Misting & Watering-What would you use? How would your system be set up? Would most of this be done by hand or on a timer? What type of environment are you trying to set up? How much humidity or moisture is ideal? What type of temperatures would be ideal? For how long and what frequency would you mist?

3. Soil and Container-What type and particle size would you use? Would you custom make a box, use a plastic pot, air pruning pot? What size container is ideal compared with the root ball? What else is important to consider?

4. Initial Potting-How do you handle the root ball? Do you completely or partially bare root? Do you comb out any roots or rinse with a hose? How do you tie the tree down? Do you soak the roots in something before potting? What else?

5. What else?-Is there anything else you might use? Bottom heat, humidifiers, cold frames, mulch beds, magic dust, etc? Why would this thing be beneficial?

 

[evolve]

Magic dust, it's all about the magic dust.

I'm super interested in the topic of aftercare myself. Collecting permits just came available in my area and I plan on collecting a few small conifers with the hope of gaining experience so that I can collect some larger material in the future.

I do not have the experience to make suggestions with any conviction, but most of the modern material I've come across on the web seems to suggest that you treat collected trees like you would any other tree (with the exception that you're not going to do any work on it for awhile). That would mean sufficient water, good soil medium, proper sunlight per the species, and fertilization. That's completely generic, but I've seen lots of suggestions for putting trees in the shade, not fertilizing, not removing any native soil, etc. all which seem to be a dated concepts. But again, I don't have the experience to say what works and what doesn't and would appreciate the views of those more experienced.

 

[Gene Deci]

For a collected tree to thrive, the environment you provide needs to be as close as possible to the envirnment where that species thrives in nature. That is why collecting close to home is so much easier. But in any case you need to find out what the species in question likes and that includes things you may not ordinarily think of. Preferred wind, humidity, temperature (day and night as well as summer and winter), soil pH, micorrhizal fungus to name a few that can differ significantly from one species to the next. There is no ideal aftercare that fits all conifers.

 

[amkhalid]

This is a tough one... there are so many variables that I don't think many people on the planet really "know" what the best aftercare is. For example, misting is commonly recommended... but does anyone actually have empirical evidence that it helps? It might make sense that it would help reduce transpiration for a tree collected without much roots, but does it do anything for trees collected with a good rootball? Maybe it actually harms them...?

I don't think most of us collect trees on a scale that would generate any sort of meaningful data. Best bet would be to talk to someone who does collect on a large scale, like Randy Knight perhaps.

But if I had to guess, not overwatering would be the thing I think is very important in conifer aftercare. If you got the time of collection right and a good rootball, the rest should take care of itself.

Just my thoughts... not very helpful I know.

 

[yenling83]

This is a tough one... there are so many variables that I don't think many people on the planet really "know" what the best aftercare is. For example, misting is commonly recommended... but does anyone actually have empirical evidence that it helps? It might make sense that it would help reduce transpiration for a tree collected without much roots, but does it do anything for trees collected with a good rootball? Maybe it actually harms them...?

I don't think most of us collect trees on a scale that would generate any sort of meaningful data. Best bet would be to talk to someone who does collect on a large scale, like Randy Knight perhaps.

But if I had to guess, not overwatering would be the thing I think is very important in conifer aftercare. If you got the time of collection right and a good rootball, the rest should take care of itself.

Just my thoughts... not very helpful I know.

Thanks for the reply-I completely agree with you about everything-except I mist my trees after being collected(but hey who knows if it actually helps). I agree and think few people in the world can really answer these questions while speaking from sucessfully collecting tons of trees-except for a few like Randy Knight and Andy Smith.

I also agree that is you have a good root ball, everything seems to take care of it self. But, what about if you don't have a good root ball? Or what about if you had a so so amount of roots? Then maybe aftercare becomes even more important. I'd also like to keep increasing my success rate of collected trees.

I've emailed Randy Knight a few times about aftercare and he has mentioned that I should experiment and learn what works in my climate. This makes total sense to me. He suggested trying out bottom heat-which he does not currently use, but though it might be a good idea. I will be trying this for the first time this year.

It's interesting that you say don't water too much for newly collected trees. I imagine you probably learned this from Mr. Tanaka. I have not thought about that too much, but guess it might make sense to try as well.

 

[amkhalid]

I didn't really talk to mr tanaka about nursing yamadori. I don't think he really works with newly collected trees, and if he did the Japanese species and climate is different than mine. I follow the advice of the locals.

That being said, I mist my trees too but don't know if it does anything.

 

[gergwebber]

my rule is to only collect under the assumption that the tree will die. Of course the only way to improve is through practice and research, but I hate taking a tree only to see it diminish and waste despite my best efforts. So my rules are: assume it will die and would you still choose to take it? At this stage in my bonsai career(I have time on my side[knocking on wood]), I restrict my attempts to trees that are not already great in form, trees that are overcrowded, thriving as a species, poorly positioned, or in the path of the development.

On aftercare, providing them with their original conditions is important with a few vital exceptions:

soil, obviously, you will *almost* never pot up a tree in "native soil." (a pot is not a natural environs, so why should the media be?) but exceptions do exist though thats new thread

And full sun: I never move a recently collected tree into full sun unless I got a lot of roots and it is going in the ground.

Ideally though, a bonsai super collector will need every tool in the kit and the knowledge to know when to apply what at some point right? If I had to prioritize the needs of a collected tree: (starting from the just brought it out of the truck stage)

I would say containers really won't matter initially except for size and directing root growth(shape).

I like to start with potting soil cut with lava: its cheap, drains well, and has a low base line of nutrients and provides new roots with easy access

drip is good, mist is better.

I like shade with bright indirect light. under a larger shade tree works well.

thats the basics but issues with type of tree, amount and type of roots collected and time of year can and will drastically change the above.

 

[Dan W.]

It is different with juni's and pines around here. Many of the pines (mostly ponderosa) can go directly into the sun with a good root pad. Juni's generally get a hoop-house with a mist system. I'm not that sophisticated yet but that's the goal. For junpers in CA I read a thread recently about someone collecting with Harry Hairo...I'll try to find it. Anyway, that thread had some info about aftercare with junipers in CA.

 

[Dan W.]

Here is that thread:

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthr...-JC-I-thought-I-could-out-collect-Harry-Hirao!

 

[daudelus]

In regards to the question about roots after collecting, it is almost necessary to bare root trees collected because of the heavy predominance of clay... many times, the tree can't even be lifted by a single man (this old man) without lowering the weight of it caused by the clay.