What not to do to a Ponderosa Pine Progression.

Jeramiah

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In 2014 I was lucky enough to meet Andy Smith for the first time at his house. I picked up this Ponderosa Pine while visiting.

August 2014
2014 August-a.jpg

I picked it up knowing that I was going to take it to a workshop with Owen Reich the following spring. The following two images are of the tree in May 2015 before the workshop and June 2015 after.

May 2015
2015 May.jpg

June 2015
2015 June.jpg

Things are going good up until this point. But you will soon see that my patience level was not where it needed to be. I had just started with Pines in 2014, This was only the third one that I had picked up. I was reading everything, Ponderosa Pine. Trying to learn as much as possible. I learned about the infamous Fall Technique for Ponderosa Pines. The Fall Technique is where you cut the big buds and pull needles in the fall and the result is supposed to be more back budding and shorter needles.

Now I don't know if I had read something wrong or I just didn't understand. Most likely I just didn't understand the technique and my patience was just not there. The following images were the result of my understanding of the Fall Technique.

August 2015
2015 August-b.jpg

2015 August.jpg

I know right? Made sense when I read the technique, but now that I have a little more grasp on horticulture I see how wrong this technique is. Don't do that to your Ponderosa Pines.

You read to do one thing at a time. Let's see, I styled the tree in the spring and then reduced all of its energy in the fall of 2015. Wait that was two things. I bet 2016 will be a better year because according to my reading of the Fall Technique I am going to have more back buds and shorter needles. This tree will look amazing I am sure of it.

Do one thing a year. Fall of 2015 to the spring of 2016, sounds like a good time to repot this tree. This image is some time after a repot.

June 2016
2016 June.jpg

Looking good. Short needles. Here it is in August of 2016.

August 2016
2016 August-d.jpg

The needles are still short, but the one thing I did not get was back budding in 2016.

2017 was the year that I lost my other Ponderosa that I did the same technique too. The tree followed the same timeline as this one. This one was not strong by any means either. Still looked nice though. Needles were still small but the budding was just not happening.

June 2017
2017 June.jpg

July 2017
2017 July.jpg

In the fall of 2017, I pulled the extending trunk line in closer and here the tree in April of 2018.

April 2018
2018 April.jpg

The tree is growing fine this year and think it has finally turned the corner and has built up its strength to finally grow. I feel that I set this tree back 3-5 years by the using Fall Technique and my lack of patience.
If you look at my other Ponderosa in this thread (https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/sharing-a-ponderosa-in-development.33925/) you can see what doing the right thing can do versus doing the wrong thing in this thread.
If I would have just set the structure on this tree and then fertilized heavily, this tree would be so much further along in its development. But as it is, there has been zero back budding on this tree and I have lost a couple branches that I was hoping to use.

Anyway, I hope this helps to show what not to do to a Ponderosa Pine.
 

coh

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I know I'll risk starting a holy war by mentioning this, but Ryan Neil has said (on his live streams) that the fall technique you used should never be done on ponderosa pine. Instead, he advocates building up strength by not removing any needles, fertilizing heavily, basically letting the tree grow wild. He says that leads to back budding which will allow you to cut back and make the tree more compact.

I have a couple of pondys and had read about the fall technique, but never got the nerve to try it.
 

Jeramiah

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I know I'll risk starting a holy war by mentioning this, but Ryan Neil has said (on his live streams) that the fall technique you used should never be done on ponderosa pine. Instead, he advocates building up strength by not removing any needles, fertilizing heavily, basically letting the tree grow wild. He says that leads to back budding which will allow you to cut back and make the tree more compact.

I have a couple of pondys and had read about the fall technique, but never got the nerve to try it.

Yeah, don't do it. I had learned of Ryan's way last year by one of his students and then when I took a workshop with my other Ponderosa with Bjorn he reiterated to fertilizer heavy to get back budding. If you look at my other thread it is an amazing difference.
 

Littlejoe919

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Yeah, don't do it. I had learned of Ryan's way last year by one of his students and then when I took a workshop with my other Ponderosa with Bjorn he reiterated to fertilizer heavy to get back budding. If you look at my other thread it is an amazing difference.
Thank you for sharing!
 

Jeramiah

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You guys are welcome.
Weird concept. Weaken a tree and it will only do what it can to survive. Strengthen a tree and it will produce new growth with all of the extra energy.
 

M. Frary

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I know I'll risk starting a holy war by mentioning this, but Ryan Neil has said (on his live streams) that the fall technique you used should never be done on ponderosa pine. Instead, he advocates building up strength by not removing any needles, fertilizing heavily, basically letting the tree grow wild. He says that leads to back budding which will allow you to cut back and make the tree more compact.

I have a couple of pondys and had read about the fall technique, but never got the nerve to try it.
Sounds like regular common sense pine care to me.
 

Bu-Jetjet

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I know I'll risk starting a holy war by mentioning this, but Ryan Neil has said (on his live streams) that the fall technique you used should never be done on ponderosa pine. Instead, he advocates building up strength by not removing any needles, fertilizing heavily, basically letting the tree grow wild. He says that leads to back budding which will allow you to cut back and make the tree more compact.

I have a couple of pondys and had read about the fall technique, but never got the nerve to try it.
I follow that technique because my first concern is to get the tree in tip-top shape after collection. Now that I think about it, because of the sizes I've been collecting, I'm not too concerned about the needle length of my Ponderosas... But yes, so far, letting it grow wild (over-fertilizing, watering everyday), has produced back-budding.
 
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