alexcross
Seedling
This tree is one of the first of my bonsai projects. The branch structure looked really interesting and I think it would be a good tree to learn on with lots to do to it. Any suggestions on where I should go with it?
What should I do with my learning bonsai?
- Thread starter alexcross
- Start date
C.A. Young
Sapling
What species is it?
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
Welcome to B-nut.
It would help us give you better input if you would update your profile with your location.
I am on a cell phone at the moment so I can't tell exactly what you have posted pictures of so it would help to know what it is.
In any case, the first thing is to learn to keep it alive. If you can do that then you can start working at making it into a bonsai.
It would help us give you better input if you would update your profile with your location.
I am on a cell phone at the moment so I can't tell exactly what you have posted pictures of so it would help to know what it is.
In any case, the first thing is to learn to keep it alive. If you can do that then you can start working at making it into a bonsai.
alexcross
Seedling
The tree is an Elm. I updated my profile with my location! I have experience in gardening so I'm familiar with keeping them alive. I've been doing a lot of research as well.
KennedyMarx
Omono
There are big sections of the tree with little to no movement. I think it needs to be drastically cut back to get movement and taper. I'm a newb, so take my mockup with a grain of salt.
alexcross
Seedling
Wowee those are some big cuts! What do you mean by "no movement"?
KennedyMarx
Omono
Alex, if you look at the trunk you'll see large straight sections of branches. This isn't really good unless you're aiming for a formal upright, but even then the spots with straight growth has to be very specific (pretty much just the main trunk). Look at some pictures of developed bonsai and you'll see the trunk and branches have a lot of movement to them. It's what helps give the illusion of a small version of a big tree rather than just a weird shaped bush.
KennedyMarx
Omono
I don't think I explained it very well. Here is a quick read about trunk development:
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdevelopingtrunksforbonsai.htm
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdevelopingtrunksforbonsai.htm
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Texas is a very large state, could you be a bit more specific? Welcome to the forum.
Kennedy is right about those straight sections. You could try to put some bends into the straight section above the proposed cut lines, but you'd need to shorten it in any event. So you'd have to count on getting new buds to pop.
Think of this as you are, as a learning tree. Do things to it to make it better, and learn from each thing you do to it.
Kennedy is right about those straight sections. You could try to put some bends into the straight section above the proposed cut lines, but you'd need to shorten it in any event. So you'd have to count on getting new buds to pop.
Think of this as you are, as a learning tree. Do things to it to make it better, and learn from each thing you do to it.
october
Masterpiece
KennedyMarx gave you some good advice. Keep in mind that whenever you chop this much off of a tree, it is a gamble. I do believe the tree would survive this amount of work. However, there is that chance the tree may not. Also, for this tree to ever really become a nice bonsai, this amount of work would need to be done. That being said.. If I am on the same page, this is a virt of what was suggested. What you would do after the tree is chopped. It to let it grow completely untouched for maybe a couple of years. Then, you would pick the branches you want to keep. From there, you would develop those branches into mature branches with foliage to form pads.
Here is the virt.
Rob
Here is the virt.
Rob
Attachments
![edited%20bonsai[1].jpg](/data/attachments/23/23239-3582546eb1c2d864c38d0f000fe5046c.jpg)
alexcross
Seedling
That makes sense! So when the new branches begin to form, and the new top is established, the trunk will be thicker with a newer, thinner top to give the illusion of a real tree?
I still don't understand how you guys came straight to the conclusion of cutting off that entire top part and making that first branch the new top.
I still don't understand how you guys came straight to the conclusion of cutting off that entire top part and making that first branch the new top.
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jk_lewis
Masterpiece
The red line in hat earlier picture is as good a place as any to cut on this tree. After all, it IS an elm. They'll backbud easily.
Don't do it until January, though (in S. TX) in north TX wait until March.
Don't do it until January, though (in S. TX) in north TX wait until March.
As you continue in your bonsai hobby, you willl earn that is is a very common practice. Soon the bonsai addiction will bite you too, and you will be visualizing every tree you see in real life as a bonsai. You will be placing them all in imaginary pots and virtualizing which branches you would remove, etc. You will be examining the root flares and trunks of almost every plant or shrub you come across. Your eyes will be following them from the ground up, following the curves, deciding which branches could be potential new trunks, creating the best taper and all that. Your signifigant other will get jealous and think you love the trees more than them. You will be coveting your neighbors' landscaping shrubs, scouring your nearest garden centers constantly, anything you can do to feed this disease, 'cough,cough', I mean hobby. Bonsai will become a way of life and as you practice and study and learn and look at thousands and thounsands of trees, you too will be able to see the future bonsai in an otherwise ordinary shrub.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
^^^^ what he said.
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
Quoted for agreement purposes.
MrFancyPlants
Omono
haha, very accurate.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
In starting your journey down the bonsai highway there are a couple of things you should know. I have posted this before but it bears restating here, the most important single trait in a bonsai is the size of the trunk and its shape. These are the two most difficult things to design and encourage without a lot of time involved in the process.
You have heard the term "movement" used in conjunction with "trunk" before in this thread. Movement is the subtle or not so subtle bends and twists a mature tree tends to exhibit in relation to its trunk. Generally speaking, movement of this nature begins when a tree is very young and flexible, and in bonsai it is generally done with very young trees. It is difficult to impart movement to a tree's trunk easily and is usually beyond the imagination or skill of a beginner, requiring a bit of experience and proper equipment; no insult intended just telling it the way it is. But there is hope, so keep reading.
Another problem is thickness of trunk. This too can be artificially induced by growing a tree in the ground, or larger container but it does take time, effort and the knowledge of what you are doing and why you are doing it. The main problem is getting both a thick trunk, and movement.
To understand what I am talking about here you should spend some time studying photos of mature or at least nearly complete bonsai and pay particular attention to the size and shape of the trunk. Many of us look and drool over some of these trees but we only admire, we do not analyze. Analyze what you see, and understand that these trees do not become what they are by themselves, 99% of them have been totally manipulated by some dedicated bonsai artist somewhere and sometime.
So----unless you want to spend the next twenty-five years trying to grow a skinny trunk into a masterpiece trunk just to find out you have wasted twenty-five years trying to grow a skinny trunk into a masterpiece trunk---- you need to find material with larger trunks, and preferably with some movement.
Second secret of bonsai. Unless you happen to be able to afford Yamadori bonsai you are kind of stuck with some sort of comercial grower of material useful for bonsai, or just an ordinary nursery. Most of all look for trunks keeping in mind the trunks you have seen in the bonsai pictures you hopefully have studied. Dirty little secret #3 Most bonsai are not grown up into masterpiece bonsai, they are hacked down into masterpiece bonsai. You start with much larger material, you identify the best traits of trunk and movement, or the potential the material has to offer then you cut the tree down to that proportion.
Trunk size is only a matter of ratios. If I have a trunk that is two inches across and the tree is five foot tall you would laugh at the smallness of the trunk. However if I have a trunk that is two inches across and a tree that is eight inches tall then the trunk starts to take on the proportions of a mature tree with in that parameter and its ratio to the top of the tree.
So in a nutshell you have been given the fruits of years of bonsai experience . If you learn this you will save yourself many years of fruitless effort, trial and error. Not that you wont make mistakes, at least your mistakes are going in the right direction.
You have heard the term "movement" used in conjunction with "trunk" before in this thread. Movement is the subtle or not so subtle bends and twists a mature tree tends to exhibit in relation to its trunk. Generally speaking, movement of this nature begins when a tree is very young and flexible, and in bonsai it is generally done with very young trees. It is difficult to impart movement to a tree's trunk easily and is usually beyond the imagination or skill of a beginner, requiring a bit of experience and proper equipment; no insult intended just telling it the way it is. But there is hope, so keep reading.
Another problem is thickness of trunk. This too can be artificially induced by growing a tree in the ground, or larger container but it does take time, effort and the knowledge of what you are doing and why you are doing it. The main problem is getting both a thick trunk, and movement.
To understand what I am talking about here you should spend some time studying photos of mature or at least nearly complete bonsai and pay particular attention to the size and shape of the trunk. Many of us look and drool over some of these trees but we only admire, we do not analyze. Analyze what you see, and understand that these trees do not become what they are by themselves, 99% of them have been totally manipulated by some dedicated bonsai artist somewhere and sometime.
So----unless you want to spend the next twenty-five years trying to grow a skinny trunk into a masterpiece trunk just to find out you have wasted twenty-five years trying to grow a skinny trunk into a masterpiece trunk---- you need to find material with larger trunks, and preferably with some movement.
Second secret of bonsai. Unless you happen to be able to afford Yamadori bonsai you are kind of stuck with some sort of comercial grower of material useful for bonsai, or just an ordinary nursery. Most of all look for trunks keeping in mind the trunks you have seen in the bonsai pictures you hopefully have studied. Dirty little secret #3 Most bonsai are not grown up into masterpiece bonsai, they are hacked down into masterpiece bonsai. You start with much larger material, you identify the best traits of trunk and movement, or the potential the material has to offer then you cut the tree down to that proportion.
Trunk size is only a matter of ratios. If I have a trunk that is two inches across and the tree is five foot tall you would laugh at the smallness of the trunk. However if I have a trunk that is two inches across and a tree that is eight inches tall then the trunk starts to take on the proportions of a mature tree with in that parameter and its ratio to the top of the tree.
So in a nutshell you have been given the fruits of years of bonsai experience . If you learn this you will save yourself many years of fruitless effort, trial and error. Not that you wont make mistakes, at least your mistakes are going in the right direction.
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