What to do, when to do it and on what species to manage growth in pines in bonsai

[Rafael Najmanovich]

New Video! What to do, when to do it and on what species to manage growth in pines in bonsai. In this video I discuss the most up-to-date modern approach to follow to manage and balance growth in a multitude of pine species commonly used in bonsai taking advantage of their natural growth habits.

 

[Rafael Najmanovich]

Thanks.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Ok. The experimental decandling at around 11:00 isn’t going to yield you much to go by, because the technique is incorrect, and not consistently applied:

1. You don’t cut the candles in half when decandling, you remove them entirely.

2. You need remove all of this year’s growth, or else you aren’t going to force the tree to grow again in that area, but instead you are weakening that particular branch, and the others around it will strengthen. This action will make the imbalance worse. With pines, it’s all about establishing balance.

3. The technique of decandling is used for refinement of developed pines, not rough stock like your example. Rough stock like your example should be pruned for branch selection in the fall, needle-pulled for balance, and wired for shape. If all goes well, summer candle-cutting could begin the following summer, along with balancing techniques which you seem to understand, but do not apply.

I’m not sure I will take the time to watch more of this video. If I do, I may comment further. Your study and passion are commendable, but the teaching is a bit premature.

Here is one of my reasonably well-balanced JBP, before, and after summer candle-cutting (for shorter internodes and needles), needle-pulling (for balance) and wiring (for shape). This has been in training for 8 years, and candle-cut for maybe 3 years.

 

[Rafael Najmanovich]

Ok. The experimental decandling at around 11:00 isn’t going to yield you much to go by, because the technique is incorrect, and not consistently applied:

1. You don’t cut the candles in half when decandling, you remove them entirely.

2. You need remove all of this year’s growth, or else you aren’t going to force the tree to grow again in that area, but instead you are weakening that particular branch, and the others around it will strengthen. This action will make the imbalance worse. With pines, it’s all about establishing balance.

3. The technique of decandling is used for refinement of developed pines, not rough stock like your example. Rough stock like your example should be pruned for branch selection in the fall, needle-pulled for balance, and wired for shape. If all goes well, summer candle-cutting could begin the following spring, along with balancing techniques which you seem to understand, but do not apply.

I’m not sure I can make it much further into this video. If I do, I may comment further. Your study and passion are commendable, but the teaching is a bit premature.

Here is one of my reasonably well-balanced JBP, before, and after summer candle-cutting (for shorter internodes and needles), needle-pulling (for balance) and wiring (for shape). This has been in training for 8 years, and candle-cut for maybe 3 years.
View attachment 252406View attachment 252408

What you mention is all for multi-flush pines which includes japanese black pine like yours. The post-hardening pruning can be used on multi-flush AFTER decandling in the spring. What I do in the mugo pine is demonstrating post-hardening pruning and it is the technique to use instead or potentially in addition to pinching on short-needle single flush pines. While you use post-hardening pruning on a JBP, Ryan Neil does not. Again, I was not decandling, I was post-hardening pruning. I don't know how many times I repeated that in the video... Please watch the video more carefully before making erroneous comments. The techniques in this video are what Ryan Neil uses and discusses in countless streams. I am 100% confident on the correctness of the information.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

What you mention is all for multi-flush pines which includes japanese black pine like yours. The post-hardening pruning can be used on multi-flush AFTER decandling in the spring. What I do in the mugo pine is demonstrating post-hardening pruning and it is the technique to use instead or potentially in addition to pinching on short-needle single flush pines. While you use post-hardening pruning on a JBP, Ryan Neil does not. Again, I was not decandling, I was post-hardening pruning. I don't know how many times I repeated that in the video... Please watch the video more carefully before making erroneous comments. The techniques in this video are what Ryan Neil uses and discusses in countless streams. I am 100% confident on the correctness of the information.

My bad. I see it now; you jumped from a multi-flush decandling discussion to a single flush demo. Perhaps it would be better to address one topic at a time, and perform demonstrations rather than experiments with unknown outcomes.

 

[milehigh_7]

My bad. I see it now; you jumped from a multi-flush decandling discussion to a single flush demo. Perhaps it would be better to address one topic at a time, and perform demonstrations rather than experiments with unknown outcomes.

Damn it Brian, get your poop in a group... This guy is 100% confident.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Damn it Brian, get your poop in a group... This guy is 100% confident.

If the content was straight-forward and clearly discussed to begin with, we wouldn’t see nonsense like the 9 pages of arguments which included the man whose technique the other video was lifted from. This guy’s videos have already consumed more of my time than I should have allowed. I and my trees are no better for it, so I’d be wise to stop.

 

[Adair M]

New Video! What to do, when to do it and on what species to manage growth in pines in bonsai. In this video I discuss the most up-to-date modern approach to follow to manage and balance growth in a multitude of pine species commonly used in bonsai taking advantage of their natural growth habits.

This video, Raphael, was too long, boring, and confusing!

It would appear that you do have a grasp of pine management, but you are constantly switching from one type of pine to the other. I had a hard time following you, and I’m a pine guy!

You would go better to make separate videos of each type of pine. They would be shorter, to the point, and straightforward. Also, actually demonstrate the proper technique performed at the proper time of year. So, if you want to talk about decandling JBP, actually decandle a JBP!

No one needs to see you experimenting on a Mugo where you don’t absolutely know what the results will be!

I teach JBP technique to students. When I teach JBP decandling, I will bring a tree that needs decandling, and demonstrate how it’s done. I will also bring a JBP I decandled about 3 or 4 weeks earlier so they can see the new buds that will emerge because of the decandling. This is EFFECTIVE education.

You rambling on and on is not effective. Sorry.

The lesson should be: to the point, entertaining, illustrative, and concise. Your video is none of these.

 

[Rafael Najmanovich]

This video, Raphael, was too long, boring, and confusing!

It would appear that you do have a grasp of pine management, but you are constantly switching from one type of pine to the other. I had a hard time following you, and I’m a pine guy!

You would go better to make separate videos of each type of pine. They would be shorter, to the point, and straightforward. Also, actually demonstrate the proper technique performed at the proper time of year. So, if you want to talk about decandling JBP, actually decandle a JBP!

No one needs to see you experimenting on a Mugo where you don’t absolutely know what the results will be!

I teach JBP technique to students. When I teach JBP decandling, I will bring a tree that needs decandling, and demonstrate how it’s done. I will also bring a JBP I decandled about 3 or 4 weeks earlier so they can see the new buds that will emerge because of the decandling. This is EFFECTIVE education.

You rambling on and on is not effective. Sorry.

The lesson should be: to the point, entertaining, illustrative, and concise. Your video is none of these.

This video was meant to be discuss all pines together specifically to let grasp the logic of it all, which become self evident once you discuss them all together. Ideally I would have shot footage at different times showing each of the techniques but this was not the case this time. I will most definitely make individual videos at specific times but this one is a resource to clarify how to deal with different types of pines and how what you do and when you do it makes sense once you take the type of growth habit and the response the tree will provide in account. Thank you for watching, hope you watched to the end.

 

[Rafael Najmanovich]

If the content was straight-forward and clearly discussed to begin with, we wouldn’t see nonsense like the 9 pages of arguments which included the man whose technique the other video was lifted from. This guy’s videos have already consumed more of my time than I should have allowed. I and my trees are no better for it, so I’d be wise to stop.

Hey Brian, who did you "lift" your techniques from? Did you invent them? Here's an idea for you: Stop watching my videos but if you do, also please stop commenting on them here like before that didn't pay attention or watched completely and got it wrong. I am 100% confident (yes I am @milehigh_7) that there are people here and elsewhere that have and will benefit from the information I am providing.

 

[Rafael Najmanovich]

i like this idea!

@Brian Van Fleet does this well with photos and narrative text

i personally have quite a few projects i’m documenting closely with photos, videos and notes, so that i can share it all at once in 5-10 years from now when the results of the particular interventions come to full fruition. It will be interesting because in 10 years my knowledge and experience will have grown exponentially in comparison to where it is now, and i’ll be in a better position to explain (not to say ‘teach’) or review the pros and cons of what i did

I am not inventing anything new that I need to prove. I am conveying in 35 minutes, the essence of how to manage growth in pines. It is a classroom lecture in a sense, not a lab session and like I mentioned I will follow this up with individual videos for individual species and techniques at the appropriate time as the trees in my collection demand it but the entire logic of it is something that needs to be discussed together. I look forward to see the documentation of your maple projects in 5-10 years.

 

[leatherback]

I am slightly confused, and would love to learn how to develop as an artist.
I noticed that 2 years ago you were asking questions on how watering will affect styling and training goals in pines. And now you are an expert on pines making lectures on pine development techniques?

How did you manage to become an expert that quickly? Do you have some 50 pines at home that you have gained so much experience that quickly? I feel quite the slow learner now.

 

[Rafael Najmanovich]

Really, did I ask such silly questions 2 years ago? haha. Wow, I did really learn a lot in 2+ years with Mirai Live as a pro member. Join Mirai Live today @leatherback and you too can quickly progress. Like I said in the past, Mirai Live is revolutionary. I am not claiming to be an expert but I am providing correct information. By the way, it is a logical fallacy in an argument to attach the messenger instead of the message.

 

[Rafael Najmanovich]

By the way, I added a time stamped table of content to the description of the video so people can browse faster around this long video.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Hey Brian, who did you "lift" your techniques from? Did you invent them? Here's an idea for you: Stop watching my videos but if you do, also please stop commenting on them here like before that didn't pay attention or watched completely and got it wrong. I am 100% confident (yes I am @milehigh_7) that there are people here and elsewhere that have and will benefit from the information I am providing.

I am a student of Bjorn. By this I mean I actually work with him several times a year in my home or at his nursery, and have done so for the last 6-7 years. Before that, I studied regularly with Kathy Shaner. The list goes on. I have learned my techniques over the last 25 years of study, and demonstrate my results with decent trees which have been shown at the National level. My hawthorn won the American Bonsai Society’s Ben Oki award and appeared on the cover of their magazine. I share here for anyone to see and discuss; and on my own site where you can read, but I get to decide if your comments are published or disappear forever into the ether. Poof.

Look, if you come use this forum to hustle your videos, you have ZERO right or ability to limit the discussion about them. So believe me, if I feel like commenting on your posts here, I absolutely will. By posting here, that door is wide open.

It is unfortunate that you don’t seem to understand the difference between what I share here, and your poorly-produced video that poorly explains Walter Pall’s “trademarked” technique using undeveloped trees.

Clearly you are intent on doing this, so step up son! Learn to present with some tone and inflection, sit up straight, speak clearly, purposefully, with some energy, and into the camera. Find some trees worth looking at, or at least an interesting background. Give the viewer something that is worth watching.

If the message is similar, why would I watch someone rambling in front of a bedsheet with no Bonsai in sight for 30 minutes when this video is also freely available?

There is a reason why Bjorn has 68,000 subscribers and millions of views.

 

[Adair M]

This video was meant to be discuss all pines together specifically to let grasp the logic of it all, which become self evident once you discuss them all together. Ideally I would have shot footage at different times showing each of the techniques but this was not the case this time. I will most definitely make individual videos at specific times but this one is a resource to clarify how to deal with different types of pines and how what you do and when you do it makes sense once you take the type of growth habit and the response the tree will provide in account. Thank you for watching, hope you watched to the end.

Raphael, it doesn’t matter what you “meant” for this video to do, it fails to present “the logic of it all”.

Instead of showing that you are competent in the nuances of working with pines, your uneven manner of speech, and rambling style makes it appear that you are trying to remember what someone has told you. As opposed to how someone who has done something a million times can talk about the subject.

Your video is just painful to watch, and, yes, I did watch it to the end.

I’m trying my best to be honest and helpful. Go back, and make separate videos about each kind of pine you think warrants a separate video. Post one of those and see if it is any better.

Watch that video of Bjorn that BVF posted. Did it have the attributes that said was missing from yours? To the point, concise, entertaining, illustrative? Absolutely!

Why would I want to watch a boring lecture when I can watch Bjorn? And see beautiful examples of the techniques he’s describing? Instead of leggy rough stock?

 

[leatherback]

Join Mirai Live today @leatherback and you too can quickly progress.

Hm.. Somehow I am more of the believe that besides the theory, practical experience goes a long way. So knowing what will happen, and in which circumstances are required rather than just having watched someone else do the work. But that is just me. Good to know you actually do not have the experience. You are just repeating what someone else told you then.

I am not claiming to be an expert but I am providing correct information. By the way, it is a logical fallacy in an argument to attach the messenger instead of the message.

Would not dare to dispute this. Trouble is, if a non-expert tried to convey a message, a lot gets lost.

 

[Silentrunning]

I am a rank amateur in bonsai but I enjoy the beauty and creativeness of this art form immensely. To improve my skills I watch a lot of videos and take notes on each type of tree that I own or hope to own. In watching the videos presented by this young man I kept having a feeling that something was lacking. It finally dawned on me this morning what was happening. In Bjorn’s, Nigel Saunders’ or Peter Chan’s videos you get the feeling that they are trying to impart something they enjoy or feel is very important. This morning I remembered that people can earn money by posting videos. The more videos and more followers, the more money. The feeling I was getting while watching these videos was that they were just being made as away to make a quick buck. A clever idea. Take something that someone else has made, change a few words around and presto. You have a money making video. I admire his creativity in making easy money, not bonsai.

 

[Vance Wood]

Damn it Brian, get your poop in a group... This guy is 100% confident.

Try not to substitute Confident with correct, they are both different concepts and not interchangeable.
As to the recent video I have not reviewed it close enough to determine if his references to Mugo Pine fit my experience with the tree.

 

[choppychoppy]

I've watched these and the bottom line is they are essentially garbage. They are VERY poor 'rememberings' of online lessons and lectures by a very raw enthusiast. If you actually want the actual real info just take all the names that he drops in the titles for clickbait and watch THOSE peoples videos. These really just don't make any sense to me as they are sooooo rambling and unfocused. Since they guy knows he's just repeating what is freely already out there (free Mirai vids, bonsai empire, professionals pages and blogs etc.) its 100% for self promotion. If he was really just trying to help with bonsai learning he would just direct people to the correct sources and promote those people. I mean I study with Bjorn as well and I teach too but when I tell folks about techniques and where I learned them I say go to this video or post etc by Bjorn not one by me (again what would be the point, I seriously doubt I'm gonna present or say it BETTER than he does). If you want to become a respected teacher in your own right then get out and teach and travel 300 days a year for 5 years like guys like Bjorn have done