Rafael Najmanovich
Mame
Adair, This tree is technically very good. And yes, absolutely yes, I spoke about how to distribute energy and manage growth in JBP being a multi flush pine species starting at 2:37 (
What to do, when to do it and on what species to manage growth in pines in bonsai
- Thread starter Rafael Najmanovich
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Adair, This tree is technically very good. And yes, absolutely yes, I spoke about how to distribute energy and manage growth in JBP being a multi flush pine species starting at 2:37 (
Rafael Najmanovich
Mame
If I recall Goshin has more rounded disk-shaped pads, not triangles even in pictures where it was in a proper state.
I value very much my bonsai education, that is why I am an avid Pro member in Mirai (and I wish I had the money to study there in person) and the workshops twice yearly with Walter Pall. It is a beautiful quote that, I never claimed that I know everything, quite the contrary and I am always open to learn from everyone, that is why I respect and listen to the opinions of people that are clearly much less advanced than myself in their bonsai journey snd often I learn something new too. From where I see things, I very much throw your quote back at you. It is all nice and cute to mention that and with it claim enlightenment suggesting that the other is still unaware but, I feel you and a few others here self proclaimed experts are the ones that could still learn. Even if I question your aesthetic tastes, I don't question your technical knowledge. In bonsai there are plenty of things that only time (or money) can bring you but I would appreciate if our discussion was about any mistakes in the techniques that I presented because they are bona fide as far as I know and if a clear and honest discussion about the technical content of my video were to highlight an inconsistency that was not part of my mistake in presenting the information (if it were I would apologize), then I would go and discuss with Ryan or Walter or whoever I learned that to move forward.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Just a FYI...the method Ryan advocates does not include leaving stubs of different lengths. He teaches cutting all candles at the same time leaving the same tiny stub, then balancing energy by removing needles...leaving fewer in the stronger areas of the tree. I'm not sure if that was discussed or made clear in the video, I've personally had a tough time sitting through these videos - especially the pine one.
Rafael Najmanovich
Mame
Incorrect, post-hardening pruning is done at any length of the new growth to fit the silhouette. You are right about decandling, but you don't decandle a single flush short needle pine like the mugo where I was not demonstrating how to perform post-hardening pruning, instead I was experimenting to know if the time I did it is already too late to obtain new buds at the cut site in Montreal. That is why I did it at different lengths as these equate to being in the process of maturing into non-meristematic tissue for longer or lesser time. I apologize for the tough time sitting through the videos, I will try to improve the presentation in the future.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
What is incorrect? The method I described is exactly what Ryan talks about for multi-flush pines, which is what Adair was talking about.
I'm a mirai member as well and I've seen all of the JBP videos...
No, I told you I watched it to the end, and I did. You stated to decandle every shoot, large and small, even very tiny, to about 1/8 inch. That’s ok, but not optimal. The strong shoots at the top and at the ends of branches should leave longer stubs. The middle strength shoots a shorter stub. The weak shoots, hardly any stub. The very weakest shorts, the ones that either barely came out, or didn’t grow, I leave them alone. Second, I pull needles from the strong areas, a good many. In the mid-strength areas, not so many, and the weak areas maybe only a couple, or maybe none at all. How many to leave? It depends, on a lot of factors: the overall strength and age of the tree, the level of refinement, whether it going to be shown in the near future, etc.
And then...
There’s a whole different technique you failed to mention AT ALL! The 10 day technique. This technique has you decandling the weak areas first. Then 10 days later do the mud-strength areas. Finally, after another 10 days, come back and decandle the strong areas. On more highly refined, old, heavily refined trees, the 10 day technique seems to work better.
But you didn’t discuss that, did you?
And then...
You can combine the two! Using the 10 day technique, you can vary the stub length!
And then...
On some trees, a shoot or two might get away from you. In the early season, when candles are extending, you can pull some of the old needles, closest to the bud! Not closest to the trunk. Closest to the bud. Then, when decandling, decandle and actually cut back to where you pulled needles! This will induce back budding on last year’s growth!
And these are just JBP techniques.
There are several balancing techniques specific to Zuisho, Kokonoe JWP.
You don’t learn this stuff from watching videos.
Rafael Najmanovich
Mame
I never advocated living stubs of different lengths on a multi-fhush. What I discussed in the video is exactly what you mentioned. Specifically: On multi-flush, he will decandle, he will not touch the second flush. He will distribute energy by needle plucking. If all your second-flush candles start growing at the same time and you decandled at the correct time depending on the size of the tree, and all the branches have the same density of needles, the second flush will grow well distributed and to the length proportional to the silhouette equally everywhere. The post-hardening pruning is performed on single flush short needles.
Mayank
Chumono
Beautiful tree!!! Now I have Pinus envy!!
Rafael Najmanovich
Mame
The techniques that you mention are definitely different from the approach that Ryan Neil takes. Clearly both can work as both your trees and Ryan's trees are a testament. Which technique is easier to apply or gives results faster, I can't say now. I described exclusively what I learned from Ryan. Now I didn't mention any of what you mention, not because I forgot to mention it, I didn't mention any of that because that is not the methodology advocated by Mirai and I follow their methodology. Like I said earlier, take the info or ignore the info. All good. As a person that knows that still has a lot to learn as you suggested earlier being enlightened that way, you should have valued and perhaps think of experimenting with this radical approach proposed by Ryan and that I described. Perhaps it does give equally good results in less time or is easier to perform.
Do you know this for a fact?
Because I dispute it. If you cut all the candles at the same time, leave the same (very short) stub, the strong sections of the tree will produce stronger summer candles than the weaker sections of the tree.
I know, because that’s the way I used to do it. 40 years ago, that’s the way John Naka taught me to do it. It didn’t work out the way you describe. The strong sections produced stronger summer candles than the weaker sections. We didn’t know any better, do the next year we did it again. And again. Over several years, the imbalance lessened because the tree became more ramified, and all the summer candles were less vigorous simply because there were more of them.
But it was an overall effect happening all over the tree.
It wasn’t until Boon taught me about varying the stub length that I learned how to suppress the strong portion of the tree in favor of the weaker sections. And, that subtle difference in technique makes a huge difference in the results!
You see, Ryan is a Kimora student. And JBP was not Kimora’s forte. JWP and Shimpaku were. There were other Masters in Japan who were (are) better at JBP than Kimora. So Ryan is teaching Kimora’s method, which is good, but not the best.
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Rafael Najmanovich
Mame
The one thing that I can say is that if you pluck the needles at the same time as you decandle to the same density throughout the tree, you should have balanced the energy and the second flush should grow balanced everywhere but I am tell you what Ryan teaches. I can't tell yet if Boom's method is better, faster or easier to implement than Ryan's. I will experiment with both in the future. So in Boom's approach does he pluck needles to balance energy on a JBP? and if yes, when?
Yes, Boon pulls needles to balance energy.
Fall needle pulling is done to remove the previous year’s needles. If necessary, some of the needles from the new summer candles might be pulled if there is an imbalance that needs correcting.
As I understand it, Ryan says not to pull all the old needles in the fall. He has said that they’re needed “for hormones”. I have no idea what he’s talking about. I generally pull all the old needles, the only time(s) I don’t pull old needles are the very weak, interior shoots. They need all the strength they can get.
In the late winter, early spring, just before buds start expanding, you can see which buds are strong and which are weak. This is another good time to pull needles to balance energy. The strong shoots might get done needles pulled to aid in balance.
At decandling time: another good time to pull needles if necessary. Especially if the winter or fall needle pulling was skipped for some reason. (For trees in shows over the winter or spring, I usually don’t pull the old needles in the fall since “full” trees look better than “sparce” trees at the show.)
So, yes, needle pulling is absolutely a technique used to balance strength in JBP. From what you describe, it’s the only technique Ryan uses.
Quite frankly, this is why I’m a Boon student rather than a Ryan student. Ryan is very talented, but he tends to focus on the native plant material of the Pacific Northwest, and my climate is very different from his. JWP and JBP thrive in my climate, whereas Ponderosa and Rocky Mountain juniper suffer.
Fall needle pulling is done to remove the previous year’s needles. If necessary, some of the needles from the new summer candles might be pulled if there is an imbalance that needs correcting.
As I understand it, Ryan says not to pull all the old needles in the fall. He has said that they’re needed “for hormones”. I have no idea what he’s talking about. I generally pull all the old needles, the only time(s) I don’t pull old needles are the very weak, interior shoots. They need all the strength they can get.
In the late winter, early spring, just before buds start expanding, you can see which buds are strong and which are weak. This is another good time to pull needles to balance energy. The strong shoots might get done needles pulled to aid in balance.
At decandling time: another good time to pull needles if necessary. Especially if the winter or fall needle pulling was skipped for some reason. (For trees in shows over the winter or spring, I usually don’t pull the old needles in the fall since “full” trees look better than “sparce” trees at the show.)
So, yes, needle pulling is absolutely a technique used to balance strength in JBP. From what you describe, it’s the only technique Ryan uses.
Quite frankly, this is why I’m a Boon student rather than a Ryan student. Ryan is very talented, but he tends to focus on the native plant material of the Pacific Northwest, and my climate is very different from his. JWP and JBP thrive in my climate, whereas Ponderosa and Rocky Mountain juniper suffer.
Rafael Najmanovich
Mame
In Multi-flush Ryan pulls needles in the spring at the same time of decandling. bottom needles, 3rd year needles as well as 2nd year needles to the extent necessary to leave 8 to 12 pairs of needles per bundle depending on the density of the weakest branch. He also stops fertilizing a month prior to decandling (I didn't mentioned that in the video). I don't understand yet either the reasons behind when Ryan says that it is important to leave older needles for hormonal balance.
Saddler
Chumono
These videos remind me of this....
Walter Pall
Masterpiece
Exactly this is coming up. Bonsai Empire is in the process of finishing a new educational series with several heavyweights. It is about all sorts of aspects. Not always,. but often trees are used on purpose that are very much affordable and it is explained and shown how a big name would approach them. I am happy to be part of this. Among other things i explain and show the hedging method in depth. I also work on a couple of 200-US$-trees. Watch out, it will be announced soon.
Saddler
Chumono
Those will be videos worth watching. I can’t wait.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
for sure, a lot of the material that some of the pros are working on is attainable, its just that many folk have no intention of spending more than a few pounds or dollars on material. nor are they prepared to put in the effort to seek out decent material
Preparing American deciduous broadleaved trees
Jennifer, Ron, Jeff and Walter have fun working on these trees. These are all deciduous broadleaved trees which were collected in America. They are mostly American hornbeams, Swamp Maple, oaks, linden, hydrangea and others. You can see what they look like after two vegetation periods and how...
KiwiPlantGuy
Omono
So I can’t help myself to not stop posting.
The OP’s post #33 says it all when he asks us to subscribe to his channel. Good luck as you won’t get any subscribers from Bnut.
AND then it is incredulous to read on the next couple of pages where you argue and protest, and best of all you disrespect more than one highly experienced members. Thank you to @Adair M for all the lessons on JPB, as I didn’t get any info worth remembering from the OP’s video.
I can’t be bothered spending anymore time and/or effort just to realise the OP’s experience level is maybe 0.1%.
Charles
The OP’s post #33 says it all when he asks us to subscribe to his channel. Good luck as you won’t get any subscribers from Bnut.
AND then it is incredulous to read on the next couple of pages where you argue and protest, and best of all you disrespect more than one highly experienced members. Thank you to @Adair M for all the lessons on JPB, as I didn’t get any info worth remembering from the OP’s video.
I can’t be bothered spending anymore time and/or effort just to realise the OP’s experience level is maybe 0.1%.
Charles
