What to do with this Japanese Black Pine

[surfer3406]

Hi All,

First, thank you all for the info I've learned here already. I'm new to bonsai and this has been a great resource. I was gifted this Japanese Black Pine from a member of the local club. It made it through the winter great and has had good growth this year. Per the advice of the club members I recently decandled it, cutting the new candles down to about 1/3 to allow for a second flush of growth.

My question is, how do I make this into an attractive bonsai? The guy had this wired into a hard twist, hence the curvy trunk. But maybe it's because I'm new, I'm having a hard time visualizing how this will be a good bonsai without just regrowing the trunk. It's very spindly and leggy, with needles only on the branch ends. Also, for some reason (maybe it was never rotated?) almost all the branches are on one side of the tree.

It currently lives in pre-bought Bonsai Supply general soil, so it's a mix of lava/pumice/pine bark fines/calcined clay. The pot is in my backyard, which is northeast facing. So it gets direct sunlight from sunrise till about 1pm and then indirect light (shaded by house). I'm normally watering once per day, twice this week during this 90+ degree heat wave.

What would you do to bring out the best in this tree? I was thinking of maybe chopping it down to the first branch and growing it back out from there. However, because I live in a townhome I cannot put it into the ground, or in an anderson flat on the ground. It would need to be grown out in a pot. I was thinking a like, large 10" pond basket with a similar soil mix? Thoughts? Also, why are the needles on mine so long? All the nice pines I see have short needles and mine are super wild. Thanks!

 

[namnhi]

I would put it in a training pot and let it grow a few years without doing anything to it. During that time, you can watch YouTube videos on how to develop them or work on your other trees.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Greetings and Welcome Aboard Bonsai Nut and a really good question!

Agree with @namnhi. Let grow for now. That said wouldn’t let the tree grow much taller. Also would cut needles hanging down on the apex which may shade lower growth Feed copiously, even through the winter for now.

Typically one is merely growing a trunk at this stage, with the tree likely small to medium size and a much thicker trunk. This will take a number of years to take shape. That can be a hard thing to take as a novice, but consider this as a learning project and get more trees, especially of similar types before moving on, so you learn each species well. Sell or give away the excess down the line once you understand the species. Guarantee after a couple years you will appreciate the journey.

The area of most likely development will be the lower 1-3 branches, given they can be kept back budding. Consider anything above as sacrifice branching for now.

Curious about a couple things

1. First where are you located? This info will really allow us to help you. To add this simply click on your icon atop the page, then account details and scroll down and add location and USDA growing zone.

2. Wondering about the decandling method. This method delays new candles and creates smaller candles in the next year. Also the apex is not decandled when growing a trunk. It is left to run free with one candle until it gets unwieldy and one shifts to another, lower branch, to be the new sacrifice. This keeps the growth in one ever smaller area over time, but with an ever growing amount of foliage on each lower branch due to back budding. Anyways, that’s the basic idea.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Shibui]

Per the advice of the club members I recently decandled it, cutting the new candles down to about 1/3 to allow for a second flush of growth.

Not sure whether you misunderstood the advice or whether the members who gave it are not as experienced as they could be. Decandling seems to fascinate inexperienced growers and is therefore often incorrectly applied. As has already been mentioned, decandling is a technique more often applied much later in the development of a pine.

I'm having a hard time visualizing how this will be a good bonsai without just regrowing the trunk.

Regrowing the trunk is a well used technique for developing many species for bonsai. Beginners look at the whole trunk and wonder what to do. More experienced growers look at the lower trunk and first few branches and wonder what they can develop from there.

It's very spindly and leggy, with needles only on the branch ends. Also, for some reason (maybe it was never rotated?) almost all the branches are on one side of the tree.

These are very common on beginner pines and very likely why it was given to you. All is not lost though. You can still learn a lot about pine development and there's still several chances to develop a reasonable bonsai from this stock.

I was thinking of maybe chopping it down to the first branch and growing it back out from there. However, because I live in a townhome I cannot put it into the ground, or in an anderson flat on the ground. It would need to be grown out in a pot. I was thinking a like, large 10" pond basket with a similar soil mix?

Rather than cutting back now I would be using the taller parts as sacrifice branches. these are retained and allowed to grow free to thicken the lower trunk but will not be part of the final bonsai - hence the term sacrifice. When the lower trunk is thicker (in 2 or 3 years) will be the time to cut. Your chop may be at the first branch or might be at the second fork. So much can cahnge in a year or 2 of wild, rapid growth that it is of little use making hard plans now.
The tree will take many more years to develop if kept in a small bonsai pot like the one it's currently in. Your plan of a pond basket is sound but wait to transplant until a suitable repot time of year for your location. Adding a location to your profile helps alert other members to your seasons and climate which will help us offer more specific advice should you continue to post.

All the nice pines I see have short needles and mine are super wild. Thanks!

All the nice pines you have seen are likely much older and much more developed than this little seedling. That will hopefully come. But, for now, long needles and untidy growth is the reality when developing your tree, along with long, lanky branches.

 

[surfer3406]

Thank you all for the replies! To answer a few of the questions:

1. I live outside Philadelphia PA, my hardiness zone is 7a
2. Not sure why I was given the advice, maybe the member thought of this as a finished bonsai? Anyway, I was told to wait until roughly mid-June, when the candles are at their longest and are just starting to open up, and then to cut them down to about 1/3 the size, which I did. I was told this would create another flush of growth and just assumed more growth is good?

I appreciate the narrowing of focus. Rather than worrying about this entire tree I should focus on the lower trunk. My thoughts are:

1. Larger pot, repotted probably next spring
2. Dry soil mix. I know the standard would be 1:1:1 akadama/pumice/lava but recently read this Walter Pall article and he recommends a small amount of organic. I have some sifted raised bed soil that is mostly pine bark fines, and the "general purpose" Bonsai Supply soil I have is pumice/lava/clay/pine bark. After reading tons of articles it seems like the exact ratios of components are flexible and as long as the soil is mostly modern, well draining inorganic everything will be OK.
3. Allow a few years of unrestrained growth

My last question is on the pot itself. How big is "big" and when do diminishing returns begin? I currently have 6" and 10" pond baskets available, a shallow plastic bonsai training pot & large nursery-style black plastic pots. The pond baskets and bonsai pot are relatively shallow and the nursey pots are pretty deep. For pure growth, which would work best?

 

[namnhi]

Thank you all for the replies! To answer a few of the questions:

1. I live outside Philadelphia PA, my hardiness zone is 7a
2. Not sure why I was given the advice, maybe the member thought of this as a finished bonsai? Anyway, I was told to wait until roughly mid-June, when the candles are at their longest and are just starting to open up, and then to cut them down to about 1/3 the size, which I did. I was told this would create another flush of growth and just assumed more growth is good?

I appreciate the narrowing of focus. Rather than worrying about this entire tree I should focus on the lower trunk. My thoughts are:

1. Larger pot, repotted probably next spring
2. Dry soil mix. I know the standard would be 1:1:1 akadama/pumice/lava but recently read this Walter Pall article and he recommends a small amount of organic. I have some sifted raised bed soil that is mostly pine bark fines, and the "general purpose" Bonsai Supply soil I have is pumice/lava/clay/pine bark. After reading tons of articles it seems like the exact ratios of components are flexible and as long as the soil is mostly modern, well draining inorganic everything will be OK.
3. Allow a few years of unrestrained growth

My last question is on the pot itself. How big is "big" and when do diminishing returns begin? I currently have 6" and 10" pond baskets available, a shallow plastic bonsai training pot & large nursery-style black plastic pots. The pond baskets and bonsai pot are relatively shallow and the nursey pots are pretty deep. For pure growth, which would work best?

10 in round terracotta or 10 in square pond basket should do for this tree. I don't use pond basket anymore since my climate is just too hot for the tree. It gets dry out too fast.

 

[snowman04]

10 in round terracotta or 10 in square pond basket should do for this tree. I don't use pond basket anymore since my climate is just too hot for the tree. It gets dry out too fast.

The pond basket should work for PA. All my JBPs are in Akedama, not organic... Of course, I would never argue with Walter...

I'm not the expert on this but it seems like you are just getting started on the journey...

Don't expect too much, too soon!

 

[Shibui]

I know you have a rule in the photos but it appears to be behind so parallax may be misleading for the size of the tree and pot. I'm guessing the pot is probably 4"-5" long? In that case the 10" basket should be OK. Going too big too quick can be detrimental so moderate upsizing is better.

Like @namnhi I find pond baskets dry out too quick here. I get better growth in ordinary plastic plant pots but worth a try to see how you go.

After reading tons of articles it seems like the exact ratios of components are flexible and as long as the soil is mostly modern, well draining inorganic everything will be OK.

First rule of bonsai is that everyone uses a different soil mix and theirs is the very best. Reality is different mixes suit different areas and different care regime. You can learn to manage trees in almost any soil mix so just pick something you think sounds good and give it a go. Make adjustments if you find it does not work as well for you at your place.

Not sure why I was given the advice, maybe the member thought of this as a finished bonsai?

I usually find it is someone not too far past beginner who is eager to show they know stuff but have not yet experienced enough to realize we use different techniques at different stages in development. Decandling appears to be 'magic' for many newer growers who do not yet understand the ramifications of the technique. Defoliation of deciduous species is another magical technique that beginners promote without understanding.

I was told to wait until roughly mid-June, when the candles are at their longest and are just starting to open up, and then to cut them down to about 1/3 the size, which I did. I was told this would create another flush of growth and just assumed more growth is good?

Mid June is the correct timing but I remove the entire candle on dual flush species. That removes any bare 'necks' to get the new shoots closer to older growth as well as promoting much shorter shoots with smaller needles.
The extra flush of growth is good but it is not 'more' growth when we have interrupted the original growth for several weeks. in this case, more is actually less.

Allow a few years of unrestrained growth

Just need to qualify unrestrained growth. Unrestrained growth is good for thickening the trunk but sometimes lots of strong, tall growth weakens the lower branches as the tree feeds al the resources to the tallest shoots in order to keep getting taller. Those lower branches are vital to your future bonsai. If you feel they are getting weak you should prune the top to restore flow to the low branches.
You will also need to judiciously prune the lower sections you intend to use in future. Pines do not bud easily on bare wood so it is imperative those branches do not get too long and bare. You need some shorter shoots and needles on them to grow your future tree. Developing pines is not as simple as most deciduous. Read plenty but the best teacher is experience.