What to do with this tree

Music4cash

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Here is my DAS. I have three ideas as to what to do with it. I got it two months ago, I cleaned it up, and cut the top off, and wired a new leader to be the apex. But I still think it's too tall, and the very top growth is leggy anyways.

The question is how much more should I take off the top? I was thinking about cutting it at the second whorl down.

The second thing is how many of the bottom branches to remove. I was thinking the lowest 3 or lowest 4 whorls.

Any other thoughts? I'm going to repot it this spring it's pretty rootbound.
 

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Wires_Guy_wires

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My first thought about spruce like these is: they're usually 100% container grown, so the roots have a high chance of being whorled and curled up. Sometimes there's such a fat taproot that it basically extends the tree by a few inches. It might be a knee even, meaning that there's limitations to what you can do with the planting angle.
That would be the first I'd want to find out, because that base can lay the foundation for all future decisions.
 

Mike Hennigan

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I would do pretty much the opposite, don’t remove any of the bottom branches, chop the trunk above the second or third whirl from the bottom. Wire up of of the branches as the new leader. Bam, instant taper, better movement.
 

Mike Hennigan

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Try to stop viewing the main trunk as the only trunk option basically. You can build the second half of the trunk from a branch that is already present by wiring it up
 

Mike Hennigan

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Here’s an example of What I’m talking about. This is the initial styling of one of my Colorado blue spruce from nursery stock material. Reduced the trunk drastically, and used a branch as the new trunk line. It’s not so pretty right now, but I have set a good structure to get some good backbudding in the spring. Branches will be shortened eventually. And once it grows for a few years that transition of taper will improve. I also still have too many branches, but those will be reduced in number in the next few years as well

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I think watching this free Mirai video on YouTube could really help you out with this tree... he styles a nursery noble fir using this same concept:

 

Csmdad

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Try to stop viewing the main trunk as the only trunk option basically. You can build the second half of the trunk from a branch that is already present by wiring it up
There's a really good Mirai video I've watched (multiple times now) that shows exactly this.
 

Mike Hennigan

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HA!!! I just replied same time with the same video.

Hahaha NICE! It’s the perfect strategy with this kind of material, though it’s hard for people to see this option sometimes!
 

Music4cash

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I would do pretty much the opposite, don’t remove any of the bottom branches, chop the trunk above the second or third whirl from the bottom. Wire up of of the branches as the new leader. Bam, instant taper, better movement.

I think cutting that low would leave a more extreme taper than what I envision. I don't like it when I see a tree and can tell where the trunk chops were done. The lower branches I think are too thin to give me the taper I'm looking for. That and except for the low branches and the apex I like the tree as it is.
The other issue is it's very rootbound so a repot this spring is a must, so I'm worried about doing too much pruning to it. I'm focused on keeping the tree alive first and foremost.
 

Mike Hennigan

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I think cutting that low would leave a more extreme taper than what I envision. I don't like it when I see a tree and can tell where the trunk chops were done. The lower branches I think are too thin to give me the taper I'm looking for. That and except for the low branches and the apex I like the tree as it is.
The other issue is it's very rootbound so a repot this spring is a must, so I'm worried about doing too much pruning to it. I'm focused on keeping the tree alive first and foremost.

Sure, but keeping it as tall and as straight as it is will never be a good bonsai, it needs to be shortened to gain better proportions. I’m not saying do it all at once. I repotted this spruce of mine from a nursery container the year before I did this work. I would always suggest repotting nursery stock first before styling. You’ve got the right idea there. Keeping all that foliage will help your tree recover from the repot quickly. As opposed to pruning a lot and then repotting. Remember you can always improve the taper with growth over the course of a few years. No such thing as instant bonsai!
 

Music4cash

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Sure, but keeping it as tall and as straight as it is will never be a good bonsai, it needs to be shortened to gain better proportions. I’m not saying do it all at once. I repotted this spruce of mine from a nursery container the year before I did this work. I would always suggest repotting nursery stock first before styling. You’ve got the right idea there. Keeping all that foliage will help your tree recover from the repot quickly. As opposed to pruning a lot and then repotting. Remember you can always improve the taper with growth over the course of a few years. No such thing as instant bonsai!

Excellent, so I'll leave it alone for now, repot in spring, wait for the lower branches to get thicker, and then chop the trunk.

What about keeping it short by pinching the apex and just letting the trunk thicken on it's own? Will that get me there or will I still need trunk chops to get taper in the end?
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Excellent, so I'll leave it alone for now, repot in spring, wait for the lower branches to get thicker, and then chop the trunk.

What about keeping it short by pinching the apex and just letting the trunk thicken on it's own? Will that get me there or will I still need trunk chops to get taper in the end?

Yes, no more pruning, do repot in spring. Then let it grow to recover from the repotting for the entire summer. Look for an appropriate training pot now, to repot it into in spring. The training pot should be less than 5 inches (12.5 cm) in depth, 4 inches (10 cm) is more ideal depth for training. It should be wide enough to hold roughly the same nearly the same volume of potting media that the current pot holds. You will have to be pretty aggressive to comb out the roots, remove the downward roots that would keep the tree sitting too high in the pot. When you are done, the potting media should be level, and at least 1/4 inch below the rim of the pot. If you have to mound the soil, you did not remove enough off the bottom of the root ball, take it out and remove more off the bottom. The training pot can be rectangular, or round, it is your choice. Wide and shallow. It can be a ''production grade'' bonsai pot, or it can be plastic, or a large bulb pan. It can also be a home made wooden box. What ever you want.

As to training by ''pinching'', this is not a ''good'' technique over the long run. There is a fine distinction between pinching and pruning, and some confusion as to when an action is one or the other. (I have no fingernails, so I pinch using a scissors) Someone who already is fairly experienced conceivably could develop a spruce only by pinching and pruning of newer (less than 3 years) foliage. BUT, in general at some point the top will have a tendency to thicken branches quicker than the bottom, and no amount of controlling foliage by ''pinching'' or pruning will ever keep that in balance over the long term. At some point, removal of the top portion of the tree, to be replaced by a younger branch will be necessary. But with the current plan you have of repotting in spring, allowing to recover without pruning over the summer, You have a number of months to read up on spruce as bonsai both here on BNut and on other websites and other articles. In general, bonsai techniques used for most species of spruce can be applied to Dwarf Alberta spruce. The DAS does have a few unique quirks, but otherwise it is a variety of Picea glauca, and as such most spruce techniques will work on DAS. So your assignment to complete by the end of summer is read up on spruce as bonsai.
 
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