What's wrong with plain old commercial nursery sand?

Mike Corazzi

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We concoct all sorts of exotic mixes for soil and yet I don't think I've ever got a plant from a nursery that was in that fine black potting sand (?) and not FULL of roots.
No matter the size of the can or how long the plants have been in big containers with no repotting, they are all FULL of roots.

And the plants look healthy.

Is this sacrilege?
 

fredman

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Yeah that's only temporary though. As soon as that nursery soil start compacting and the roots cant breath, they start dying... the finer ones that takes up the nutrients first. Soil has to exchange oxygen...fine soil don't do that very well.
The plants are happy but only for a season or two/three. After that they start going backwards. Also plants are born survivors.. they don't want to die, so they make do with what they have for as long as possible...it does get to them after a while though...:)
This is a good read, for container planting and bonsai alike...
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discus...soils-water-movement-and-retention-xxii?n=356
 
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Mike Corazzi

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That's what I've always thought. However I have bought plants from closed and junked nurseries that have been in the cans for years and they always did OK.
 

fredman

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Yeah plants and trees defines the word toughness...We had a native tree nursery in SA a long time ago, before I knew anything about open soils. We planted the trees in pure earth mixed with some compost. They thrived for years. Never saw any "suffering" but knowing what I know now...THEY DID suffer...they just made do, and got on with the job of not dying...:p
Its all about getting optimum growth and health...open soil is best for that. The roots do die and compacted nursery soil is bad news, when it comes to working roots ;)
 

garywood

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We concoct all sorts of exotic mixes for soil and yet I don't think I've ever got a plant from a nursery that was in that fine black potting sand (?) and not FULL of roots.
No matter the size of the can or how long the plants have been in big containers with no repotting, they are all FULL of roots.

And the plants look healthy.

Is this sacrilege?
Mike, most of the nurseries in SoCal use decomposed granite -DG- it drains quite well for a fine media and holds a LOT of water. The reason they use this kind of media is that it holds moisture but their watering practice is usually drip. Using a nozzle will result in pooling and runoff leaving the interior dry. A deep nursery pot watered only once a week or so is considerably different than a shallow bonsai pot. Can you use DG in a bonsai pot? Sure but watering practices had better be good. The whole thing about soil concoctions is to minimize watering concerns. I know there is more but watering is the most critical concern.
 

Anthony

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In the older days the idea was to approximate - Loam

40 sand
40 silt [ decayed rock ]
20 clay

Then you bought your plant and put into the ground.

What we did down here, was change the particle size, try to get spheres, and used fired brick instead of decayed rock.
Also removed the clay and substituted an organic.

If you look at the various soil mixes, they tend to contain, an inorganic that holds water in itself, an inorganic that
holds water around itself and an organic that can hold onto the NPK plus micro-nutrients.
Additionally, if you use a totally inorganic, often the fertiliser is organic, plus roots rot, dust, insect poop and so on
will add back in the organic.

You can word play, compost, leaf mold, oil seed meal, humus, bark and so on, but it is an organic, that can hold
fertiliser.
The porous inorganic will hold the fertiliser in itself in the water based solution.

What really makes the difference is your attention paid when watering.
This is why they say, it takes 3 to 5 years [ if paying attention daily and thinking ] to master watering.

What you may wish to test, is the response of the expendable plant in the nursery soil, when pruned etc, and fertilised.
See if you get results you are happy with.
Good Day
Anthony
 

GroveKeeper

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What I wonder is, why arent more people using perlite? There is always talk of pumice, lava and akadama but chunky perlite seems like the best thing you can do for roots.
 

Redwood Ryan

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What I wonder is, why arent more people using perlite? There is always talk of pumice, lava and akadama but chunky perlite seems like the best thing you can do for roots.


Perlite is super light and floats like crazy. Plus it can be smashed between your fingers. Not as rock-like as pumice.
 

Potawatomi13

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Yeah that's only temporary though. As soon as that nursery soil start compacting and the roots cant breath, they start dying... the finer ones that takes up the nutrients first. Soil has to exchange oxygen...fine soil don't do that very well.
The plants are happy but only for a season or two/three. After that they start going backwards. Also plants are born survivors.. they don't want to die, so they make do with what they have for as long as possible...it does get to them after a while though...:)
This is a good read, for container planting and bonsai alike...
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discus...soils-water-movement-and-retention-xxii?n=356

Great explanation;).
 

GroveKeeper

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Perlite is super light and floats like crazy. Plus it can be smashed between your fingers. Not as rock-like as pumice.

I've never experienced perlite floating to the same degree that others claim... and pumice will float too. I don't think it's that big of a deal that you can crush perlite with your fingers either. It's a trade off for the great root growth.
 
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