What's your Pre-Bonsai Soil & Pot set up?

[chuckwc1]

Colanders and training pots with drainage and wire holes.. but also have wooden grow boxes and Anderson flats . Went hard on the clay pots kinda like Scarface with cocaine on the table …. Depends what my goal is But mostly use 60% pumice , 20 % pine bark and 20% of whatever like peat/ perlite / leftover akadama or lava (kitchen sink) , older recycled substrate mixes.

Any recommendations for which containers goes with which type of tree? I was just thinking all pond baskets for the cost/time savings, but I could be convinced to use other types of pots. Terracotta seems very doable as well, I would guess that Terracotta would work better for trees that want to stay a bit wetter compared to a Pond basket.
I suppose the real advantage of an Anderson flat or grow box is you can make the planting a lot shallower than a terracotta or Pond basket. I'm sure that shallow root mass would help with nebari & repotting into a Bonsai pot. Just not sure if that advantage is worth the time/money to me for now.

 

[chuckwc1]

1:1:1 8822, Perlite, Pine Bark sifted to eliminate fines. Trees go in spare plastic pots for deciduous, and terracotta for conifers or trees that like it drier. Larger specimens or trees that I am looking to get bigger growth on in wooden grow boxes made from pallet wood for free.

So you find that generally wooden grow boxes work better than terracotta?

 

[chuckwc1]

Any recommendations for which containers goes with which type of tree? I was just thinking all pond baskets for the cost/time savings, but I could be convinced to use other types of pots. Terracotta seems very doable as well, I would guess that Terracotta would work better for trees that want to stay a bit wetter compared to a Pond basket.
I suppose the real advantage of an Anderson flat or grow box is you can make the planting a lot shallower than a terracotta or Pond basket. I'm sure that shallow root mass would help with nebari & repotting into a Bonsai pot. Just not sure if that advantage is worth the time/money to me for now.

 

[Kanorin]

Colanders and pond baskets are great for pines and other species that really like things on the drier side. Some less thirsty deciduous (hornbeams maybe) could theoretically do ok in them if you have a smaller particle size or can water them 2-3x per day in the summer.
Anderson flats are great for big stuff.

There are more than one way to create a good nebari. For example, you could use a deep pot, but lay the roots out over and secure them to a solid surface (wooden board, ceramic tile, steel washer, rock, etc). It's easier to manage the water and oxygen needs in such a layout compared to a super shallow pot.

 

[chuckwc1]

Colanders and pond baskets are great for pines and other species that really like things on the drier side. Some less thirsty deciduous (hornbeams maybe) could theoretically do ok in them if you have a smaller particle size or can water them 2-3x per day in the summer.
Anderson flats are great for big stuff.

There are more than one way to create a good nebari. For example, you could use a deep pot, but lay the roots out over and secure them to a solid surface (wooden board, ceramic tile, steel washer, rock, etc). It's easier to manage the water and oxygen needs in such a layout compared to a super shallow pot.

What container do you use for your thirsty deciduous? Since you're in St. Louis as well, your advice is super helpful. I won't be able to reliably water 2-3x in the summer due to my job.

 

[Kanorin]

What container do you use for your thirsty deciduous? Since you're in St. Louis as well, your advice is super helpful. I won't be able to reliably water 2-3x in the summer due to my job.

Plastic nursery cans, any kind of training pot that has about 3.5-6" of depth, or the ground.
*Edit to clarify - this is for things that I'm still building trunks on, which is most of my collection.

 

[Underdog]

What container do you use for your thirsty deciduous? Since you're in St. Louis as well, your advice is super helpful. I won't be able to reliably water 2-3x in the summer due to my job.

I put the pond basket in a nice fitting nursery can which allows the root pruning w/out the exposed surface drying out. But as you see you still have to sort out the roots like I didn't in this case.... ugh

 

[Orion_metalhead]

So you find that generally wooden grow boxes work better than terracotta?

Wood grow boxes hold more moisture since the wooden sides themselves retain moisture. For deciduous such as maples, elms, dogwood, etc. these work great. The fact you can make them ANY SIZE is a major plus. I usually make a handful at the beginning of the year on a nice late winter day before trees are ready to be repotted and repot trees I want to gain trunk thickness into them. I usually do this after a few initial repots and root prunings so that I have a decent start at the roots - meaning the taproot is gone, and I've got some radial roots forming.

Terracotta works better for Pines and trees that like it dry, because the terracotta sides evaporate away moisture through the day.

 

[Lorax7]

My soil mix is pretty much the same for pre-bonsai as it is for more refined trees. I tend to use the fresh stuff for the more refined trees and use recycled bonsai soil mix for the pre-bonsai, and sometimes cut the usual akadama, pumice, and lava with some pea gravel or NAPA 8822 filler to cheaply expand the volume for pre-bonsai that are being planted in particularly large containers. The key exception is anything that I'm growing from seed. To grow trees from seed, I typically just use the commercially produced peat plugs for germination and for the first year or two as the seedling gets going and switch over to bonsai mix at the first repotting. My rationale for using the same, or very close to the same, mix for pre-bonsai is that, in my view, the important feature of a free-draining akadama, pumice, and lava mix is that it makes my watering regime as predictable as possible. If you're using roughly the same mix for everything, with the usual ratio adjustments for deciduous (2:1:1) vs. conifers (1:1:1), then you can really tune your watering habits for what works in your yard and that knowledge gained is applicable to all your trees. You're not having to mentally "keep 2 sets of books" for watering bonsai vs. pre-bonsai. Basically, come up with a system that works and apply to all the things.

For containers, I'm usually keeping pre-bonsai in pond baskets or wood planters and these containers are larger than the containers that I would use for a tree in refinement. This is because I'm usually trying to thicken trunks on pre-bonsai and I want more vigorous growth on them than I'd want on a tree in refinement.

 

[HoneyHornet]

As far as potting soil goes I would stick to bags purposed for succulents and cactus if you must use For your organic component

when I was brand spanking new high was eager to get things in parts so I used what was available to get started and it ended up being a mix of succulent soil (Which is essentially your peat with perlite and sand) , And oil dry I’m pretty sure the brand available near me is safe-T-sorb which is fullers earth which I believe is monto , and also I would buy bags of the orchid mix(pine bark perlite and charcoal)

And to be honest the mix is damn good and works well for me and I’ll still work around that structure when I need some bulk.. instead now I buy a big bag of a really good compost called bumper crop…and I mix my perlite and bark (giving me my organic component) and then for inorganic element I use lava and turface and still use the oil dry

all available near me and is good bulk on a budget

when my trees are more dedicated to refinement I’ll order some good shit

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Have a number of tropical and deciduous tree that are in need of a repot this spring and further growth before settling down into a bonsai pot. I’m still quite the beginner, but thought I could learn from everyone’s different setups. Read some older posts related to this, and learned a lot from all the different approaches.

Right now I’m thinking Pond Baskets, with a 50-50 mix of potting soil and perlite. I could also use the classic pumice-bark-lava soil for the trees that prefer being on the dry side. What do you use when your tree isn’t yet in the refinement stage?

Proper bonsai soil in everything . Basic soil is free draining mostly inorganic. Equal parts pumice lava rock and pine bark is used by most . Don’t use anything peat basses retains to much water . Other organic Brest down and clog up the soil so drainage suffers . There is ore made soils available . Or make your own . Things can be substituted . Depending what your doing and what’s available to you . For example fir me . Volcanic soils hard to get . So expensive in large amounts . I use a fair bit of crushed granite and oil dry . Both easy to get for me . Great for collected trees and training trees . Where you need large amount . Some of the harder to get stuff save for small pots teees more finished . Your inorganic needs to be long lasting without breaking down . Pine or fur hemlock bark . Pumice holds slight amount of moisture . Great granite does not . But oil dry holds more than pumice . Experiment with mixtures fir different trees . Get some basic ingredients and mix I. Match . Conifers like more inorganic .longer lasting soil . Other end of scale is something like flowering trees like prunes that are repoted more often can use more organic . And some softer organic less time to break down before repot . But 2/3 inorganic and 1/3 organic is a starting point No peat . No garden soil ir earth . Goal is fast draining water moving thru the compost draws in air . Trees t thrive in open soil with very moist air in between soil particles . . Peat based soils stay to wet there used in nursery trade because it’s cheap . Moisture retentive . So requires less labour to water and less often . Hard to dry out so hard to kill from drying out . We want better results so . Free draining water more often . Hard to overwater bonsai soil . But it’s more labour intensive . People get confused as to what and why nursery stuff is done . Think money . Not quility like we are after . You don’t need expensive soil . Use what you can get locally .

 

[Frozentreehugger]

My soil mix is pretty much the same for pre-bonsai as it is for more refined trees. I tend to use the fresh stuff for the more refined trees and use recycled bonsai soil mix for the pre-bonsai, and sometimes cut the usual akadama, pumice, and lava with some pea gravel or NAPA 8822 filler to cheaply expand the volume for pre-bonsai that are being planted in particularly large containers. The key exception is anything that I'm growing from seed. To grow trees from seed, I typically just use the commercially produced peat plugs for germination and for the first year or two as the seedling gets going and switch over to bonsai mix at the first repotting. My rationale for using the same, or very close to the same, mix for pre-bonsai is that, in my view, the important feature of a free-draining akadama, pumice, and lava mix is that it makes my watering regime as predictable as possible. If you're using roughly the same mix for everything, with the usual ratio adjustments for deciduous (2:1:1) vs. conifers (1:1:1), then you can really tune your watering habits for what works in your yard and that knowledge gained is applicable to all your trees. You're not having to mentally "keep 2 sets of books" for watering bonsai vs. pre-bonsai. Basically, come up with a system that works and apply to all the things.

For containers, I'm usually keeping pre-bonsai in pond baskets or wood planters and these containers are larger than the containers that I would use for a tree in refinement. This is because I'm usually trying to thicken trunks on pre-bonsai and I want more vigorous growth on them than I'd want on a tree in refinement.

Agree with it all . I don’t use aka . Mainly because when I started and even today . Supply problems and not ashamed to admit . We should not have to buy dirt from 1/2 way around the world . But realize it’s value . Plus always been to scared to reuse . Soil . My products are cheap . Used goes in the garden . But agree with you as I said in my answer . Get a few products learn to use them and just slight alter the mix for different purpose