When does a rock become a stone?

[berobinson82]

Howdy. First post in this sub-forum.

I'm not sure if this is suiseki per say but when I was shopping for a few shrubs this was laying on the ground outside of a tent.

To me it looked kind of like something you see in the alps maybe. Thoughts?

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I like it!

 

[bonsairxmd]

Could pass as a mountain stone. Would look better as such with a flat base or daiza stand carved out to make it look more flat at the base. Nice stone though!

 

[lordy]

Nailed it. I'd oil that sumbichh, but that might be bad protocol. No one ever accused me of knowing what I'm talking about.
BTW, I want that cabin on the lake. I might be a hoarder of those.

 

[berobinson82]

I like it!

Thank you! I was quite fond also.

Could pass as a mountain stone. Would look better as such with a flat base or daiza stand carved out to make it look more flat at the base. Nice stone though!

I know a guy with the equipment to cut this flat on the bottom so that's an option, certainly. Looking at the picture below, would would you think about this living in water?

Nailed it. I'd oil that sumbichh, but that might be bad protocol. No one ever accused me of knowing what I'm talking about.
BTW, I want that cabin on the lake. I might be a hoarder of those.

Thanks man. I probably need to give it a good washing (power washer?) first but then why not? Walnuts crushed in a sock like some folks to do their bonsai pots?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Pretty cool. If it's a very hard stone, it could be a passable mountain stone. I can see it cut flat and sitting on a doban filled with sand; or as you suggest, a suiban with water.

 

[dick benbow]

A rock becomes a stone when it is treated as such. It has much to do with the perception of the finder, who acknowledges that there is something there. Once that is determined then the next steps of display in daiza or suiban/doban complete's the process.
In our suiseki club there are more individuals better gifted then myself with imagination.
but i get thier enthusiasm. Even influenced by it.
I find this stone easily worth the effort to appreciate past being a common rock.

 

[bonsairxmd]

Nailed it. I'd oil that sumbichh, but that might be bad protocol. No one ever accused me of knowing what I'm talking about.
BTW, I want that cabin on the lake. I might be a hoarder of those.

I oil my waterfall stone. I think the official thing to do is use the oil from one's skin. I just do what makes it present the best though

 

[Smoke]

A rock and a stone are the same thing.

Calling a rock a stone is just being more polite in possibly hostile suiseki company.

All suiseki are stones, but not all stones are suiseki.

The meaning of the word sui=water, seki=stone. A true suiseki will be a stone found of water, usually very smooth and curvy almost polished with a patina. A stone may seem almost suiseki like, but due to sharp corners and straight lines does not fit the definition according to aficionado's.

The next best thing to a water worn stone is one of wind wear, especially sand like in a desert where a stone may have the same characteristics of that of a water worn stone.

The best way to treat the matter and be in the know is to call it a Biseki.
Bi=pretty, seki=stone. A pretty stone. And, yes Biseki is a traditional Japanese classification for viewing stones.

 

[bonsairxmd]

I know a guy with the equipment to cut this flat on the bottom so that's an option, certainly. Looking at the picture below, would would you think about this living in water?

I'd cut it flat if you think you can without the stone cracking/fissuring. Fingers crossed..... Not sure about water. Sand or daiza would be my personal choice. Nice find for sure! Keep us updated on what you do with it.

 

[berobinson82]

A rock becomes a stone when it is treated as such. It has much to do with the perception of the finder, who acknowledges that there is something there. Once that is determined then the next steps of display in daiza or suiban/doban complete's the process.
In our suiseki club there are more individuals better gifted then myself with imagination.
but i get thier enthusiasm. Even influenced by it.
I find this stone easily worth the effort to appreciate past being a common rock.

Very clear explanation and thank you. On the daiza, is there any resource for learning how to produce one? I'm always looking for a new project.

I oil my waterfall stone. I think the official thing to do is use the oil from one's skin. I just do what makes it present the best though

Oh. Oh my. I really hope you are joking about that. What have you used on your waterfall stone?

A rock and a stone are the same thing.

Calling a rock a stone is just being more polite in possibly hostile suiseki company.

All suiseki are stones, but not all stones are suiseki.

The meaning of the word sui=water, seki=stone. A true suiseki will be a stone found of water, usually very smooth and curvy almost polished with a patina. A stone may seem almost suiseki like, but due to sharp corners and straight lines does not fit the definition according to aficionado's.

The next best thing to a water worn stone is one of wind wear, especially sand like in a desert where a stone may have the same characteristics of that of a water worn stone.

The best way to treat the matter and be in the know is to call it a Biseki.
Bi=pretty, seki=stone. A pretty stone. And, yes Biseki is a traditional Japanese classification for viewing stones.

So this rock/stone would be labeled a biseki since it's shape is not produced from "sui"?

Thanks, btw, for breaking this down. I admit I'm ill-studied.

 

[dick benbow]

get the book suiseki by willi benz, great how to do daiza etc

 

[bonsairxmd]

I use a product called 'RIG'. It's has more of a grease consistency (like Vaseline) than an oil thus lasts longer. I've used it to shine and protect iron meteorites in the past as well.

I've been tempted to slap a thin coat of polyurethane on my waterfall stone as its very dull without oil of some sort. That's against the rules though I'm sure. Lol. Goes against the natural aspect

Maybe don't cut it. It's making me nervous just thinking about it!

 

[bonsairxmd]

It is a grease actually. No smell though

 

[berobinson82]

Looks almost tasty. Hopefully I can pick it up locally. If not I'll look for it online.

I just ordered the Will Benz. Looking forward to taking a look.

Thanks for all the information and directions gentlemen!

 

[jkd2572]

When you pay more than $50 for it.

 

[bonsairxmd]

When you pay more than $50 for it.

I'm confused by your post. What are you referring to paying more than $50 for? Thanks.

 

[jkd2572]

That's when a rock becomes a stone. Small joke.

 

[bonsairxmd]

That's when a rock becomes a stone. Small joke.

Very true

 

[chansen]

Howdy. First post in this sub-forum.

I'm not sure if this is suiseki per say but when I was shopping for a few shrubs this was laying on the ground outside of a tent.

To me it looked kind of like something you see in the alps maybe. Thoughts?

I can give you a few ideas on the stone, but I'll be putting myself at risk for being snobby .

First, can you take pictures from all sides? Often you will find stones that have two prominent flat sides, and really we only want one. The reason... well it's like having a back branch on a stone. It adds depth to the image. In my earlier stone collecting days I picked up a lot of stones with two flat sides, but after studying more and seeing great stones in person, I now pass them by.

Second, where is the peak in relation to the entire stone? Great stones have a peak in the middle. I have a fair number of stones that have a peak at the very back. Again, there are many very nice mountain stones with a peak at the back, but toward the middle is better.

I would not recommend cutting the stone. It's quite rare to find a stone with a perfectly flat bottom and carving a difficult diaza is a large part of the artistry. I had the great fortune to go collecting in the Ligurian Mountains in Italy a few weeks ago. The geologic processes there create stones with at least one very flat side, but in my experience this is an exception. The sooner you hone in diaza carving skills, the better.

Finally, I wouldn't oil it. I've seen oiled and non-oiled stones, and I tend to prefer the non-oiled. While you do get a more immediate result, you're in for long term challenges and (to me), they never look quite right. Often times the sheen is too glossy when compared to other stones. There are times where you will find highly polished stones in a river, but there are many great stones that don't have a high luster to them. There are some great images over at the IBC of the Nippon Suiseki Meihinten show. Look in particular at stones 8, 10, 16, 23 and 24. They aren't shiny. So while there are some stones that take a higher gloss than others, it's not a strict requirement. After all, we don't spray leaf shine on our maple leaves.

Well, that's probably more than you wanted. I think the stone has potential.

Best,