When is it safe to sell?

[JonW]

I'd generally wait a year, or at least through the growing season. On the other hand, some people sell cuttings. Last year, someone bought an air-layer from me that I potted. I sold it at a 3rd of its value if I would have kept it and made it completely clear that the price reduction was because of the risk that it won't survive. I'd generally avoid that though.

 

[BonjourBonsai]

Might also want to check into the legal requirements of seeing up a business to sell plants across state borders:

Laws and Regulations

nationalplantboard.org

 

[Vance Wood]

Be sure to check your INSURANCE before you start selling.
MOST ..... HOMEOWNER..... policies will exclude anything related to business activity.

Liability is your biggest hurdle.

No offence intended but; spoken by a true resident of California where they make every thing illegal or taxable except illegal imegrants, and those who pay no taxes.
go figure!

 

[Wulfskaar]

I hope it survives! I'm quite attracted to what you did there!

 

[hinmo24t]

Tell people when you repotted and worked on it and reduce price slightly to account for it. Let them take the risk w full disclosure. Tree looks legit id buy it

 

[Vance Wood]

You can't always tell with Junipers. Depending on how aggresive you were with the roots it sometimes takes Junipers a year or two to come back. Letting someone who is bonsai savvy know the perview of the tree would be the right thing to do.

 

[Woocash]

Sorry to let this thread get away from me with so many good points made. Time zones, babies, work etc gets in the way... Thank you everybody for your input.

However, letting the thread simmer for a couple of days has enabled me to gain a general consensus; probably wait at least until the end of the growing season - potentially longer. Basically, let the tree govern the sale time. Maybe not do so much work at once next time though. Time will tell! I’d never sell a tree I wasn’t positive was healthy anyway.

On the subject of roughing out nursery stock or selling prebonsai, that would ostensibly be the same amount of work done, minus wiring and some deadwood and so recovery time would end up being the same for less revenue. Fine in bulk, not necessarily for just a few trees. Also, lots of people, no matter how hard they try just don’t have artistic flair, and so purchasing a tree with all the groundwork done, but that doesn’t cost the Earth would be appealing to lots of people IMO. It’s like with my job as a handyman. I do so much work which people could and should do themselves and save themselves a load of money, but they just want the end result. A large amount of people just want to cut to the chase. This tree still is a long way from finished though. Eventually I will offer both anyway.

Insurance and legislation is another interesting one, but I’m not ready for that just yet!

@Wulfskaar and @hinmo24t thanks for the compliments. Shipping to the USA will just cost the price of a first class ticket

 

[keri-wms]

If you plan to ship stuff, even within the UK, there’s the plant passport issue as well.

 

[BobbyLane]

Sorry to let this thread get away from me with so many good points made. Time zones, babies, work etc gets in the way... Thank you everybody for your input.

However, letting the thread simmer for a couple of days has enabled me to gain a general consensus; probably wait at least until the end of the growing season - potentially longer. Basically, let the tree govern the sale time. Maybe not do so much work at once next time though. Time will tell! I’d never sell a tree I wasn’t positive was healthy anyway.

On the subject of roughing out nursery stock or selling prebonsai, that would ostensibly be the same amount of work done, minus wiring and some deadwood and so recovery time would end up being the same for less revenue. Fine in bulk, not necessarily for just a few trees. Also, lots of people, no matter how hard they try just don’t have artistic flair, and so purchasing a tree with all the groundwork done, but that doesn’t cost the Earth would be appealing to lots of people IMO. It’s like with my job as a handyman. I do so much work which people could and should do themselves and save themselves a load of money, but they just want the end result. A large amount of people just want to cut to the chase. This tree still is a long way from finished though. Eventually I will offer both anyway.

Insurance and legislation is another interesting one, but I’m not ready for that just yet!

@Wulfskaar and @hinmo24t thanks for the compliments. Shipping to the USA will just cost the price of a first class ticket

ive sold dozens of trees and never insured a single one. most have been shipped safely, could count on one hand the amount that might have lost a twig here n there due to over aggressive couriers, noones ever left a bad review because of that tho, they knew the trees were packaged well and probably the couriers fault. tell a lie, they are compensated up to a certain amount.

 

[Cadillactaste]

A Styled tree sells for more. Some just want a tree that seems worked, than raw material. I've seen good bones sell on auctions for way less than I imagined. I've seen styled trees with less good bones...sell for more. Styling makes one feel they are buying bonsai over stock material. Especially new to the hobby...who can't find the tree in the material yet.

 

[penumbra]

it sometimes takes Junipers a year or two to come bac

I haven't had this experience but most junipers I have experience with are in the landscape. As to those in pots, I have seen several take almost a year to die with nothing that could be done except watch. But I really don't work with junipers a lot these days so I defer to those with more juniper experience.

 

[Vance Wood]

I haven't had this experience but most junipers I have experience with are in the landscape. As to those in pots, I have seen several take almost a year to die with nothing that could be done except watch. But I really don't work with junipers a lot these days so I defer to those with more juniper experience.

OK> If you are thinking to sell bonsai you have to first decide what your strength in bonsai is, if any, find that material and work with it to get it to a saleable level. It's not about what you like it's about what the public likes and will buy at the price you fix to your product. Find a location where you can vend your work and see what happens. Ryan and Bjorn both have made themselves a market using high end material supported by high end skills. They have both been apprentices in Japan and have participated in many shows internationally. Both travel the country and the world doing the same and both have established reputations.

A beginner will at first think I can do this but will soon find out just how difficult it is. You will needa nursery licenses that supports either cultivating or reseling. This will vary from state to state and of course country to country. I suggest you do not try mail order because there are an abundance of ordinances and permits if you go accros state lines If, not to mention Department of Agriculture permits allowing you to export your trees accros state lines. If you are keeping your trees for years you may run into the states demand to inspect your growing area and individual trees. You will need a sales license and a nursery license---- all will need to be renewed annually. You will have to keep emaculate books incase the government wants to come and look at your business. You will have to pay taxes on your sales and you will have to keep records of your inventory and declare that on your tax returns annually. My best suggestion to you is to find a club locally that has a show and sell your stuff at the show to start out. The club may demand a cut of your profit or charge you for the area you occupy to sell your trees, or both.

 

[penumbra]

OK> If you are thinking to sell bonsai you have to first decide what your strength in bonsai is, if any, find that material and work with it to get it to a saleable level. It's not about what you like it's about what the public likes and will buy at the price you fix to your product. Find a location where you can vend your work and see what happens. Ryan and Bjorn both have made themselves a market using high end material supported by high end skills. They have both been apprentices in Japan and have participated in many shows internationally. Both travel the country and the world doing the same and both have established reputations.

A beginner will at first think I can do this but will soon find out just how difficult it is. You will needa nursery licenses that supports either cultivating or reseling. This will vary from state to state and of course country to country. I suggest you do not try mail order because there are an abundance of ordinances and permits if you go accros state lines If, not to mention Department of Agriculture permits allowing you to export your trees accros state lines. If you are keeping your trees for years you may run into the states demand to inspect your growing area and individual trees. You will need a sales license and a nursery license---- all will need to be renewed annually. You will have to keep emaculate books incase the government wants to come and look at your business. You will have to pay taxes on your sales and you will have to keep records of your inventory and declare that on your tax returns annually. My best suggestion to you is to find a club locally that has a show and sell your stuff at the show to start out. The club may demand a cut of your profit or charge you for the area you occupy to sell your trees, or both.

This is all very true and well said but I am not sure why you referenced my post since it had absolutely nothing to do with any of your post. I simply mentioned junipers seldom come back from the dead in my limited experience with them and that conversely, many that appear to be alive after hard work are actually dead and just not showing it yet.
Perhaps my comments were not relevant to the original post overall. I certainly have no interest in selling semi trained bonsai over the counter or through the post.

 

[Gabler]

Talk to a lawyer. There's a ton of artificial barriers to starting a business in developed parts of the world. A cynic would say it's to reduce competition in the market for existing businesses, most of whom donate to legislators' campaign funds quid pro quo.

In an English common law country, you can lose your house over a negligence lawsuit unless you file the paperwork properly to establish a business organization to separate your own assets from business assets. With all the water used in bonsai, you're begging for a slip-and-fall. A mere guest in your home might not be able to sue where a business customer would have a viable claim. The standard of care is higher.

There's also the issue of tax liability. Here in the States, you're guilty until proven innocent in tax court, and they'll lock you up for a LONG time on felony charges to make an example of you, so others aren't tempted to short-change Uncle Sam.

All that before you even get into local government regulations like real estate zoning and business licensing, not to mention state and federal regulations on the commercial use of pesticides and fertilizers.

Selling the odd tree peer to peer is one thing, but as soon as you cross the threshold into the realm of operating a business, you REALLY need a guide who knows where it's safe to step in the minefield.

 

[penumbra]

Here in the States, you're guilty until proven innocent in tax court,

A very sad truth indeed, and it is only going to get worse. It is as though the IRS has declared war on its citizens.

 

[hinmo24t]

A very sad truth indeed, and it is only going to get worse. It is as though the IRS has declared war on its citizens.

Like loise Lerner scandal. Swept under the rug but despicable (prejudice based on how people think or associate, audit and squeeze)

IRS targeting controversy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Wulfskaar]

Shipping to the USA will just cost the price of a first class ticket

I just had the thought of the bonsai tree sitting in a first class seat with a flight attendant offering it a drink.